Date of interview	14th April 2018	
Moderator	xxxx	
Note taker	xxxx	
Category of respondents	Commercial drivers	
Place of interview	Park Nkadde mall	
Number of Respondents 	08
	
Duration of interview	  1hr 02 minutes	
Transcribed by	xxxx	
Key
Mod: moderator
NT: note taker
P: participant P1, P2, P3…
Transcript
Mod: Qn.1 thank you so much for accepting to participate in this study, so I will start by asking you that in this community, what road safety concerns do you have, that is general? When we say in this community we mean Kampala because you drive and go out of here.

P8: in Kampala the challenge we have is that the boda boda riders don’t follow rules, so they cause most of the accidents. You my stop for a disabled person to cross then the boda boda rider comes and knocks him down so there is need for them to know [how the laws] how the road laws should be.

Mod: am requesting one person to speak at a time. The gentleman said the boda boda …

P1: the challenge is that the pedestrians don’t mind when using the road, you may find someone is on WhatsApp, she is using her phone with headphones in the ears and is moving carelessly so this may cause accidents because when you brake so that she goes to a certain direction, she ends up going to a different direction because she has not paid attention.

Then the traffic officers disrupt the drivers especially us the taxi drivers, they don’t come with a different aim but they come looking out for taxi drivers only because when they stop them they get money out of them. So a driver could be looking out for the traffic officer and ends up knocking this one [pedestrian]. So they should reduce the [ebikwekweeto] looking out for vehicles with issues in Kampala okay they could do it but at a particular time not every minute, every minute.

P8: the other issue that I could say is that the challenge is about sensitizing people about safe road use, you may find a pedestrian walking on a wrong side of the road, one should walk facing where the vehicle is coming from 

P3: is it the left hand?

P8: it should be the right hand. So if one learns that the problem is with the side that he uses then he should use the right hand side in that he is able to see the vehicle coming in front of him because it is difficult for one to knock a person looking at him. In most cases the pedestrians knocked are facing the same direction that the driver is facing and this is because it is very difficult to save this person. 

P1: but people know that they have to keep left yet the vehicle too is using the left hand side so when the driver gets any problem [yekaanga] and the boda boda is crossing yet this person is crossing then he can easily hit this pedestrian by accident but if she would walk facing where the vehicle is coming from then they can see each other clearly and by this an accident can be avoided.

Next, the traffic officers come and impound the cars in the morning, afternoon and evening, the driver is arrested then he pays some money then the next morning they do it again so someone is always worried about that, they have to take the vehicle to the police station, they say break down break down come then it comes they take the car which costs 50,000/= from up there at the park so those issues cause problems too. There are too many road blocks and traffic operations [ebikwekweeto].

P2: if someone is arrested all the time this affects his job and he cannot be steady.

P1: if one’s car was impounded yesterday and today then he cannot be steady.

Mod: but what reason do they give?

P 5: they have no major reason given.

P3: at times they stop all vehicles and say all should go this side without knowing if they are going to check for the mechanical problems they have or it’s mere impounding them.

P2: then the problem we have is that we have no lawyer so whenever the vehicle is impounded we are afraid of being arrested even when you are doing the right thing you cannot argue [true] you will be saying;’’ what will my children feed on let me accept and pay some money so that am left to go.’’

P5: but if you gave me your car it’s because you wanted to get money from it and now they have taken 150,000/= from it this may cause a problem to the driver.

Mod: so some are worried of being arrested so they look at the traffic officials as they drive so they do not pay attention to the pedestrian?
Chorus: yes.

P8: or you try to dodge him then you end up knocking this person.

P2: even these boda boda riders

P7: and the design of our roads too, our roads are narrow, our roads are full of potholes, our roads are congested for instance in the evening if you are to come in the park, there are hawkers, boda boda riders, someone is crossing and there is a pothole in the middle of the road so as you try to dodge this pothole you knock this pedestrian who is crossing.

P8: this is the issue; people have not been sensitized about proper road use because you may find someone walking on the road going somewhere but has no clue that there are vehicles on the road. She doesn’t mind that there is a vehicle coming or that a vehicle is dangerous. You know we drive these vehicles we have vehicles but it may fail to break, you may step the breaks but they fail to function yet this one is on the road walking carelessly, do you see that? Yet the pedestrian would have taken the responsibility of knowing that a vehicle can kill, a vehicle is something dangerous on the road that kills people because of their behavior which is not normal.

Mod: what can we do about that because you have repeated it?

P8: there is need for sensitization of the community about safe road use, one should learn that when a vehicle comes it may not be able to break at that time. A person is the break because you must keep your life safe by ensuring that you are not knocked down. I don’t even know we have these western machines, someone has earphones in the ears[that’s what I was going to say] she can’t hear and thinks the vehicle can see her yet the vehicle has got a mechanical problem, she can’t hear even when you hoot.
P7: one time I hooted, I hooted but she couldn’t hear until I stopped just next to her.

Mod: was she using earphones?

P3: yes earphones. These have caused us problems, earphones.

P5: then some of them especially up there are thieves after stealing they come running and just hit the vehicles[and that’s when he becomes a person, not a thief] yes after being hit that’s when he turns into a human being not a thief.

Mod: but he was running from the other side after stealing.

Chorus: yes.

P: but he is a thief and wanted to cross the road in order to survive.
P1: then we don’t have sign posts. There is a zebra crossing down there with no road sign from the other side, nothing can show that there is a junction so one just bumps into it, nothing shows that there are humps ahead yet if you know that there are humps ahead then you slow down and pass the hump.

P8: the most respected zebra crossing is only one in Kampala at Bank of Uganda.

Mod: why?

R1: the rest of them are faded, the paint cannot be seen and you can’t know that it is a zebra crossing, they are not well designed.

Mod: why don’t people respect zebra crossings?

P4: the way we drive this side is different from the way people up there drive

P1: the reason why people don’t respect zebra crossings is that there is no sign showing that there is a zebra crossing. If a driver saw a zebra crossing sign then he will know that yes there is a zebra crossing ahead a pedestrian is going to cross, a cow is going to cross.

P:  but cattle is not accepted in the city.

Mod: he just gave an example.

Qn.2. what other concerns do you have regarding pedestrian Road safety on your roads?

P8: unless people are sensitized about road safety.

Mod: so people are not aware.

P8: they are not aware yet previously when we were still young and in school we were taught how to walk on the road but schools don’t do that anymore. The teachers would teach us from the lower levels how to walk on the roads and we would walk in queues and in groups but a car, bicycle, a boda boda would come as you see it so that you would be able to move away for the vehicle to pass. But these days a child from school will just move carelessly like a grasshopper on the road the moment the child comes from school. Even the adults in school move carelessly like grasshoppers, some are on left others on the right and they are just moving, they are in the middle and don’t mind that there are vehicles on the road

P2: they don’t know that if am moving towards this side then I should use this side or if am moving towards the other side I should use the other side. People move the way they want and previously there were laws guiding that, they would teach people; where are you going? Am going this side; so, I should use this side.

Mod: apart from schools where else were people being taught from [about road safety]?
P8: previously there were radio programs.

Mod: how about now?

P2: that is not there anymore.

P1: a radio program sensitizing people can be run but for a very short time [it’s not there]. Then they do other things yet if they could sensitize in the morning and in the evening so that the one who would have missed in the morning can listen in in the evening after work so that we benefit.

P3: then what we had forgotten is that the people who teach the drivers don’t teach in a proper way; one is taught how to put the car on the road not road safety, one may be driving at a slow pace but is in the middle of the road.

Mod: how does it affect pedestrian road safety injuries?

P8: you may meet a person driving very slowly so you want to overtake him yet the pedestrian is looking at this slow vehicle and ignores the speedy vehicle because the trainers don’t teach drivers about proper road use laws, when they teach them a few things they don’t know what to do where to start from but let them go.

P1: then there are some drivers who are not good; some are good while others are not patient when they see a passenger they drive very fast and end up knocking down a passenger.

P8: but the problem is with the instructors in driving schools.

P4: then as we drive, and we are on the road side, it is night time then we don’t have to leave the lights on. Last night along Mityana road I almost hit a certain man who was by the road side. He had the full lights on [he would have been arrested] because provided you are this side that I am using you have parked with full lights on so I was wondering if drivers are being trained properly. If you are on the wrong side the lights should be off.

Mod: how about this gentleman what is your comment about pedestrian road safety injuries?
P3: the bad drivers should stop doing that and change for example that one who was parking and had full lights on.

Mod: how about the pedestrians?
P: they need to be sensitized.

Mod: someone talked about children who cross the road carelessly so what other types of pedestrians do you think are most at risk? 
P: the drunkards.
P: those who use earphones because they can’t hear anything like vehicles hooting.
P: the mad people because once he is knocked down then he turns into a normal person.
P8: but in most cases these mad people understand vehicles more than a normal persons so you shouldn’t stick so much to that. Then for the drunkard once a driver detects that the pedestrian in front is a drunkard then he will take care of this person differently from a sober person who cannot even mind about how to cross well thinking; ‘’the car is seeing me’’ which is not the case with a drunk person who comes staggering or a mad person where you have to reduce the speed. The person with earphones will not mind, so as a driver you either stop or do what you want but he doesn’t know if the vehicle has a mechanical problem or not.
P5: the breaks might have fallen out already, you may start with good breaks but at that moment they fail to work.

Mod: so we may add that to the reasons of high pedestrian injuries.
P5: yes.
Mod: because you started with good breaks but now they have failed.
P5: yes yet as a pedestrian he would be keen because he doesn’t know the mechanical condition of this vehicle.
P7: but he will continue walking listening to music.
P1: accidents are similar to abrupt rain which comes and you wonder whether to go under a shed or not so the pedestrians too may think that the driver is going to stop since am using the side which am supposed to use.
P8: he doesn’t mind about the side he just walks.

Mod: any other types of pedestrians who are at the most risk apart from what we said, I would like to understand this better? We said school children who run from school they are not orderly as they cross the roads, then those who use earphones, the mad, the thieves who come running from people chasing them, so which other type?
P2: the disabled.

P1: those who sweep the roads in the morning and are not using reflector jackets even at night. Then there is a period that street vendors are so many.

P8: those people who sweep the road are bigheaded.

Mod: yet they have no reflectors.
P8: even with the reflectors they never mind.
P1: but the category he is talking about is not the one we are referring to, we are talking about the people who sweep the roads they don’t take the responsibility of moving away if a vehicle is coming their side they keep on sweeping and are in the middle of the road.
P3: then the people jogging along the road, they have no reflectors it is dark and at night yet the road is narrow.
P1: but the people sweeping the roads may have reflectors but they are in the middle of the road and can’t respect the vehicles coming their side they remain there yet they don’t know the condition of the vehicles.
P4: and the hawkers too as they cross with their luggage they can easily be knocked off and the street vendors too may easily be injured in case the vehicle fails you may save the other vehicles and ram into them.
P2: last month there was a bus heading to the new park from equatorial and he tried to save the pedestrians so he was hooting for them to see what was behind them but they couldn’t. First of all the road is narrow, boda boda riders are many, the pedestrians are many, they were all doing what they wanted so the bus ended up killing four people.
Mod: but he hooted, did it fail to break?
P1: yes it failed to stop. Those vehicles use pressure [omuka] to break so it failed to break.
P8: these vehicles [taxis] too fail to break.
Mod: so as we wind up with that point are there any other concerns about pedestrian road safety injuries?
P8: sensitization.
P1: reach out to people in churches, mosques and teach them about proper road usage.
P5: traffic officials should sensitize the communities.
P8: traffic is not an issue here the issue is about pedestrian injuries, how do they happen? It’s because they are careless and don’t know proper road usage so we knock them.
P1: then we have the drivers who learn today and the next day they are on the road and driving in a very unusual way, when you hoot he may end up knocking a pedestrian.

Mod: someone buys a car and comes on the road before being confident.
P: yes.
P8: that is teaching people 
Mod: this one said someone buys a car and comes on the road before being confident, so what happens?
P1: then the potholes on the roads in Kampala you may think it is in the rural areas, the potholes are left to widen so if a vehicle comes at a high speed then stops abruptly and there is a boda boda trying to dodge it that’s where a pedestrian is injured, at that point.

Mod: how about the road design? Someone said it is narrow…
P: there are no sign posts and by the time the roads were constructed the population was low but right now the number of people has increased so the roads should be widened.
P8: but the roads can’t be widened because the plan is already made the issue is sensitization.
Mod: okay let each one air out his view
P1: some use the road as a market so it becomes so narrow and the car can’t pass and when you tell her to leave she doesn’t accept and when you step anything, a shoe, tomato, cup or plate that she has put there he will say buy it buy it bring the money. He cannot know that he is doing something wrong and when you knock him you may end up fighting. So, the city wouldn’t have been like this.

Mod: Qn. 3.Are you aware of any interventions in this community that are there for the purpose of improving road safety for pedestrians?
P: in this particular area where we are at the moment?

Mod: the area from the city square to Wandegeya
P8: the challenge is about the way people move on the road which is wrong.

Mod: yes we now know about that but we would like to see if there are any interventions/program/anything that is in place with the purpose of reducing pedestrian injuries.
Chorus: nothing.

Mod: you told me about the other zebra down there?
P: it is only one.
P1: at Bank of Uganda.

Mod: and you said it is the only respected one, but why?
P2: it was painted and it is clear. [looks nice]
P4: then the traffic police too respect it because they are ever there, they guide drivers they tell them; “that is a mistake when you come back don’t park in the zebra crossing if you see that the vehicle can’t fit then park before it.” But most zebra crossings don’t have traffic police.
Chorus: they are not there.
Mod: but let me first get this right. You talked about one zebra crossing only, is there any other?
P7: at Bat Valley then where the traffic lights are at Wandegeya.
P1: then the pedestrians should know how the traffic lights work because one time I was supposed to set off and as I was setting off someone walked into the car [the boda crosses too] she didn’t look at the traffic lights first.
Mod: does that lead to high injuries too?
P1: yes.
P3: but the boda boda riders too cause most of these injuries because they don’t respect zebra crossings, they don’t know the traffic lights.
P7: the road to public service was blocked at the junction where we would branch while coming from Kampala heading to Mulago but the boda boda riders still use that road by jumping the pavement. A boda rider can come with two people loaded then he crosses and as you dodge them you end up knocking the pedestrian.
P5: I knocked a small car at that point that you are talking about, I was coming from Wandegeya so as the cars were moving the boda rider rode and jumped the pavement and then landed in front of the small car which stopped abruptly so I knocked the small car since we were too close to each other. So when I knocked his car he knocked the people on the boda who got some injuries.

Mod: so that leads to injuries too.
Chorus: yes.

Mod: but let’s go back to the road safety programs/interventions targeting pedestrians in your community, we were talking about zebra crossings then you said that the upper one is respected because it is painted well there is a signpost showing a zebra crossing and a traffic officer, but the others don’t have signposts so they are not respected.  

P1: there is no police officer yet if the drivers know that the police officer is there they reduce the speed.

P6: and sign posts too because they tell someone about something along the road so that they calm down on the speed. You may be aware because you stay in Kampala and this one too may be aware but those who have come from far may not be aware about its existence
P7: then we have roads which are one way but there is nothing to show that so it may lead to road accidents whereby these vehicles can come from different directions and have a head on or injure pedestrians crossing.

P5: then something more about the zebra crossing down here [between the old park and mukwano arcade and miniprice too] there are taxi drivers who park there to load passengers, we shall not comment on one side, they can’t move away even when you tell them to move therefore that zebra crossing does not benefit the pedestrians who want to cross [ Kawempe, Bwaise] 

Mod: so does that leads to accidents too?
P5: yes. They [the taxis] should be moved ahead so that the zebra crossing is clear, it is ever busy and not clear. The taxi drivers are not law abiding.

Mod: Was the community consulted or involved in any way in determining what interventions to introduce?
Chorus: no  
P8: there is a fly over which was put in Nakawa for pedestrians to use but since they were not sensitized about its importance they don’t use it, they all use the road. The same applies to the Kalerwe round about, the pedestrians use the rod yet a fly over is there but generally it was not well positioned, it would have been near the market. 

Mod: then safe boda, or any programs, tweddeko?
P8: we see the words on the jackets they wear but we don’t know their intentions. And even the ones who wear them are not responsible on the road, they don’t practice what they were taught about road safety, no.

Mod: aren’t there any KCCA programs in place to reduce pedestrian injuries?
Some: there are not there.
P1: the program I watched on TV was about traffic lights and that we should be careful, nothing much is shown.
Mod: what do they show?
P1: proper use of the traffic lights.
Mod: are pedestrians talked about?
P: no.
P1: no, pedestrians are not included it’s about the drivers.
Mod: that we should respect the traffic lights.
P1: yes.

Mod: what were you saying sir?
P7: all the new roads that have been constructed have different signs indicating the streets which was not the case before.
Mod: how is it helpful for the pedestrian?
P7: he gets to know the street.
Chorus: that is not relevant to the pedestrian.
Mod: let’s leave him to complete with his point please.
P7: for example if there is a signpost that there is a railway then you may not drive towards that direction thus avoiding accidents.
P: then the pedestrians?
P7: these signposts help them too, that’s what I meant.

Mod: any additions to any interventions in place to reduce pedestrian road injuries?
P1: an injury may occur as the drivers try to fight and use one place for parking, our roads have no parking space. As the pedestrian tries to cross the road he may be injured.
P3: then during construction, a road maybe a double carriage but the space for pedestrian has vehicles parked so the pedestrian ends up using the middle of the road, and the road is narrow so they should be widened.
P8: that is not possible.
Mod: I would like us to wind up with that point of interventions in place to reduce pedestrian injuries.
P8: those interventions are not in place because if they were there we would have been consulted, then we would be taught how to use them to reduce accidents.
P: or even through the radio then we are taught about it but right now we can’t say that these interventions are in place if we were not consulted.

Mod: how about the zebra crossing down there, did you wake up when it was already there? Which organization put it in place?
P: Red Cross
P: rotary clubs
P8: but putting zebra crossing without sensitization is time wastage.

Mod: so it is Red Cross but they didn’t consult you.
Chorus: they didn’t.

Mod: which other organizations have tried to put in place interventions that reduce pedestrian injuries?
Silence
Mod: you talked about traffic officials who help up there at the zebra crossing; you talked about Red Cross, any other organization?
P: rotary.
Mod: rotary but no one consults you.
Chorus: no one.
P8: for us drivers we don’t need to be explained to but they should explain to the pedestrians for instance all people from Katwe should cross from this point, then from the park the other side. This is because I don’t think there is any driver who can knock down people crossing in a group, he has to stop and wait for all of them to cross but without sensitization there is no program that will save them.
P3: then people suffer so much while using the zebra crossing at Kibuye along Entebbe road, vehicles come at a very high speed so people have to wait until they reduce in number then they can cross, people find it so difficult because there is no vehicle from Entebbe that reduces speed at that point.
P: they don’t respect the zebra crossing at all.
Mod: why?
P: there is no sign post to indicate that there is a zebra crossing at that point.
Mod: and there is no traffic officer too.  Why were these zebra crossing points put there? Is there any other zebra along this stretch from here to Wandegeya?
P5: at Bat valley 
P6: there is Buganda road primary school.
P8: but like I told you, zebra crossing without sensitization…
Mod: okay we have got that point but was it introduced in response to community demand or they came and did what they wanted?
P3: it was just for the sake because there are no sign posts.
P2: it was put to help the school children cross the road.

Mod: that as for the school, how about this one?
P: for the passengers from the bus and Owino.

Mod: was it demand from the community?
P2: no, if it was demand from the community then signposts too would have been put in place but there is none. It is useless.
P8: but you shouldn’t cling so much on the sign posts because it is all about sensitizing the community to know that this is a zebra crossing where people cross the road from so the vehicles have to stop and all pedestrians crossing the road should use that point not wherever they feel like using.
P: and not putting merchandise on the road.
P1: then the drunkards too should reduce on alcohol use, they get drunk and as they cross the road they walk into vehicles and end up being injured. Then the traffic police too should reduce the operations on the road, they are too many and lead to pedestrian accidents; there is an operation that side, in Nakasero so due to fear and panic a driver causes an accidents.

Mod: Qn.5. okay as conclude, there are some issues that you pointed out but we would need more emphasis because it is the major issue that we are talking about today, please tell us about any road safety programs/interventions that you would like to see expanded or introduced to your community? I would like us to go slow on that, I want one to say that this is what I want to be done to reduce road injuries in general then in relation to pedestrians. Is that clear?
Chorus: yes.

P1: my request is community sensitization after which we all learn the road use laws for drivers and pedestrians and these laws should be effected/ implemented.

Mod: how?

P1: if we have been taught about proper road traffic lights use like where we have to stop but a boda rider keeps moving then he should be punished accordingly.

P5: in most cases pedestrian injuries are due to boda riders because even when we stop he uses the side of the road without thinking of why these drivers have stopped so he knocks down this pedestrian who is crossing because the cars have stopped. So since there are so many boda bodas they should be reduced in number.

P7: they should be sensitized.

P1: but they are too many.

P8: the road traffic laws should include the pedestrians and how they use the road because they don’t walk on the side [haaa] listen to me, they don’t use the proper side. Secondly this pedestrian can’t think of using the zebra crossing so he uses any point of the road so the law should charge him too because he is using a wrong place for crossing the road. They must use the zebra crossing.

P6: then as you slope down in Kamwokya those pedestrians walk in the middle of the road, they don’t move away…and can’t use the road side.

P8: the reason is that they don’t know proper road use, so if they are taught that we have had several accidents and many people have died because of such and such a reason so as you walk use the direction where the vehicle is coming from, give some distance from you to the vehicle then walk in a queue and keep off the road but if not sensitized they will walk the way they feel like.

P1: for instance if we stop at the traffic lights and there is color red for stopping but she will continue walking thus interrupting the side which has green and is supposed to move ending up in an accident.
P5: the YMCA students should all use the traffic lights point for crossing but they all spread like water so it’s the vehicle to save them.

Mod: therefore the pedestrians too should be arrested.
P8: yes.

Mod: you were talking about the pedestrians who walk in the middle of the road.

P6: I was comparing with the Passover road in Kamwokya, those pedestrians in that community don’t give way for the vehicles, they leave the gap on the road side and walk in the middle of the road, in Kamwokya as you slope down.

P: not in Kamwokya only, even other places.

P8: like I explained to you, people are not sensitized.

Mod: I said we are concluding and each one of you should contribute, this one is done so…?
P1: then street parking is another challenge because there are vehicles parked in the space where the pedestrian would have passed so he ends up walking in the middle of the road like around Arua park, vehicles are parked along the street, then the street vendors so the pedestrians end up walking in the middle of the road.
P2: my emphasis is on the boda boda riders, they are wrong too because when the vehicles stop for the pedestrian to cross they continue moving then knock the pedestrians so these boda riders should be dealt with accordingly.
P7: but people are very difficult even when sensitized they never learn, they try to find space and pass even when one stops so they knock them.

Mod: your emphasis is about sensitization, what else?
P1: spots with high pedestrian levels should have officials from the police or KCCA to guide them through crossing the road. Let them not stand at the traffic lights only because they guide us by telling us stop, get ready then move but that’s where they stand, the traffic and KCCA officials they should guide the pedestrians as they cross the road. Then reduction in alcohol use too.
P8: these officials can help the pedestrians cross but it is all about us sensitizing the community about the importance of the road.

Mod: anything else? ... is that all?
Chorus: that’s all.
P1: sign posts.
P: sensitization and laws because people will be sensitized then they will not do what they are taught.
P: sensitize the community.
P3: then the ununiformed officials with hand cuffs who arrest the boda riders. The hands are cuffed up yet he has to take the boda to the police, I saw a man recently being hand cuffed but this is not right.

Mod: we are winding up. I think that is all, thank you so much.
P8: but the major issue sensitization of the community.
P: the laws should be implemented too.
P2: radios are the easiest.

Mod: by the way as we conclude how should we sensitize? Someone said radios.

P: churches have the highest number of different types of people.

P8: most people don’t use TV and radios [at 9:00pm when people are at home] the churches, mosques sensitize the community about proper road use. For pedestrians, they should be arrested if they are careless. Our neighbors like Rwanda can’t have pedestrians walking in the middle of the road.

Mod: why?
P: they were sensitized and even boarding a taxi is not anywhere that one feels like.

P: they have pedestrian lanes too.

P8: we have pedestrian lanes too but the community is not sensitized about the use because the new roads have pavements and another lane not so?
Chorus: yes.
P8: this is the pedestrian lane and the zebra crossing can be like at Arua park, yet people cannot go there in order to cross, they cross from any point, so they need to be dealt with.

Mod: the pedestrians should be dealt with.
P1: if the boda rider uses the pedestrian lane then they should be dealt with [then the one selling tomatoes] so he may be forced to use the middle of the road.
P2: this is a city but you find it full of tomatoes in the road where the cars would have passed.

Mod: we were told that you make extra lanes too.
P: that’s right but it doesn’t cause the accidents.

Mod: but the roads are narrow, it is a road for two cars but you put a third lane, a boda has to pass, the pedestrian too.
P: yes that happens too because of some drivers who are undisciplined, they were trained but they didn’t learn and do whatever they want.
P: so they should be dealt with because you may use a pavement and harm the disabled or pedestrian.

Mod: as taxi drivers don’t you have any association that helps with sensitization like the safe boda for boda boda riders though you said it’s not safe because their behavior on the road is not good so, as taxi drivers do you have any association?
P: since UTODA ended we don’t have any.

Mod: but was UTODA sensitizing you about proper road use and pedestrian safety? 
Chorus: yes.
P: how to safe guard passenger’s luggage if forgotten, giving people direction to where they want to go but now it’s not there.
Mod; you are like orphans now.
Chorus: yes.
Mod: but did they teach you to respect pedestrians?
Chorus: yes.
P: hygiene, smartness, not to wear slippers while drivers too many issues.
Mod: but was it helping you to reduce pedestrian injuries?
P: it was so good.
Mod: giving one time to cross the road.
P: yes.
P: it would have helped but the responsibility of sensitizing the community which ended long ago.
Mod: I heard that some pedestrians cross while crying and is confused.
P8; those ones are not there.
Mod: if she came from Kiboga yesterday.
P: you may see that one from a distance but the major cause of injuries are boda boda riders, as you drive you stop because a lame person is crossing and put double indicators but the boda rider will not respect that and end up knocking the lame person so sensitization and effecting the laws accordingly.
Mod: okay thank you so much.

Thank you very much for your time and views.

Date of interview	14th April 2018	
Moderator	xxxx	
Note taker	xxxx	
Category of respondents	Pedestrians	
Place of interview	Wandegeya	
Number of Respondents 	
08	
Duration of interview	37 minutes	
Transcribed by	xxxx	
Key
Mod: moderator
NT: note taker
P: participant P1, P2, P3…
Transcript
Mod: thank you so much for agreeing to participate in our study, like we said we have invited you so that we discuss about interventions that promote and enhance pedestrian road safety. These interventions might be aimed directly at pedestrians, for example increased visibility through wearing brightly colored clothes or reflectors, or providing safe places to walk, such as zebra crossings. They might also protect pedestrians as part of general road user safety, e.g. speed limits. We shall therefore begin by exploring road safety more generally, and then discuss pedestrian safety specifically.
Qn.1 In this community, what road safety concerns do you have? 

P1: the concerns we have are that pedestrians walk but drivers don’t give them space where to pass so as they walk they are squeezed so much especially by the boda boda riders and the cars as they pass them. It is not easy for them to stop for a pedestrian to cross the road. Therefore we are requesting this government to provide zebra crossings where there is a high population so that people are able to cross from one side of the road to the other.

P3: my contribution is that the government should maintain the roads well because a pedestrian maybe walking but the driver wants to dodge a pothole and as he tries to do it he ends up knocking a pedestrian, so the roads need to be improved upon.

Then the other issue I can talk about is they should try and sensitize the lay people that as you walk on this side of the road you should use the opposite direction from the vehicle this will help because people just walk, they don’t know how to use the roads properly and this has led to injuries. So the government should help by sensitizing the community like previously we should study that in nursery where they would tell us to use the opposite direction from the vehicle but I don’t think this is still done today that’s why pedestrians move the way they feel like and end up having accidents..

P6: in addition to that, the roads should be widened; for example the sir Apollo road as you go to Wandegeya there is a very small road but it is a two way so it should be made into a one way, the vehicles move from both sides so the pedestrian has nowhere to pass.

Mod: which side is that?

P7: as you move down there in Old Kampala; so as you move to that Sir Apollo road there is a small road which goes to Rubaga the road is so small yet it is a two way with vehicles going the other side and the ones coming this side, so it should be a one way.

Mod: so the roads too are narrow.

P7: yes and the pedestrian has no space to use.

P4: the driver will not leave any space for the pedestrians so she may either fall into the ditch or be knocked because sometimes the vehicles are too squeezed in that one fails to get where to pass or run for rescue.

Mod: what else has led to more injuries?

P3: this area has so many schools, we have Makerere University, Bat valley, YMCA and the market so the population is high yet there is no zebra crossing indicating that pedestrians should cross from here. Again this population includes children in nursery so there is need to mark where these children especially from schools should pass, let us ignore the adults they move in their own way.
Then we need pavers so that the pedestrians have a different walk way separated from the road for the vehicles but the boda boda riders too squeeze up and use the pavers so these pavers should be taken as an important issue and separated from the main road.

P6: then if possible a fly over should be put here because of the schools, it should be put at Bat Valley for the children then the adults can cross from down.
P2: in addition to that, we are here in Wandegeya market but when most people come from Nakasero people don’t pay attention to the traffic lights they just cross, so that leads to pedestrian injuries and the boda boda riders are too many thus leading to that problem too.

P1: in addition to what that gentleman said, I would request the government to put very stringent laws about the vehicles because majority of the people who knock us or cause accidents and breaking our legs are the boda boda cyclists so the government should set for them their boundaries so that they don’t come to town, this may reduce accidents too.

P5: in addition to that too, we request the government to provide humps on the road so that if a speeding vehicle comes he cannot continue with that speed he has to slow down so that a pedestrian can easily cross the road from that point since the car or boda boda can’t use a high speed at that spot. Yes they should put for us humps. Like this road [around the market] vehicles come at a high speed from that side so if you are not facing in that direction and you just cross then you can easily be knocked down. So if it had humps then it would be of great help. This whole side has no humps [the roads surrounding Wandegeya market]

P6: thank you very much for this opportunity, the people who are responsible for Kampala City, that is xxxxx have not done anything because vehicles park at any point that they feel like so as a pedestrian moves say around Wandegeya market where there is no parking so the vehicles park around the market so as someone goes out as he passes the car a boda boda rider knocks him down. This is not a responsibility of this person but xxxxxx which would have dealt with these vehicles which are parked here are just extorting money from them say 20,000/= that means he will continue parking there.

Then the other issue is; the number of boda boda riders in Kampala is too high, does the xxxx (authority) have any plan of reducing the number of boda boda riders? How far has it gone with registering these riders because they ride on the pavements then knock down pedestrians and when taken to the police they are set free.

P3: mum something else that I would think about is that there are some types of vehicles that should be driven during a particular time, you may find a 40 feet trailer at 8:00am coming here from Kikuubo as children go to school and are trying to catch up with time, the trailer is moving at a low pace yet it is time for children to go to school. So such vehicles should have a certain set time that they move in the city because he can move from Kikuubo at midnight so they should have a set time, one can get stuck on the road for three hours yet the children are going to school.

Mod: so have those vehicles increased pedestrian road injuries too?

P3: yes

P4: they are not easily controlled while on a hill.

P2: in addition to that yes those vehicles increase road injuries that’s why in some places they have separate roads and I remember even here in Kampala they are supposed to use northern bypass but they are bigheaded, they don’t want to pass there so they drive coming to the city yet those big vehicles are the most rampant in increasing road injuries because as someone tries to overtake them they hit them with the back of the vehicle and the other driver knocks another person. If you are to carry out proper research you will find out that these big vehicles have caused most of the road accidents.

P6: what I would like to add to that is that there is too much corruption so you may find a person without a driving permit, he has never attended any driving school but went to xxx (fake driving school) and learnt how to drive so he comes with that experience to the road where he meets a traffic personnel who hasn’t found out anything but this driver gives him some money for bribe then he walks away but the person who has been injured is abandoned there on the road because the policeman has got what he wanted. So the government should fight corruption so that each person who has done wrong is punished accordingly. Corruption should be reduced.

P8: in addition to that, I would request the government to help and implement what we request for. It has provided roads which are not good because they cause accidents which lead to death so they should provide pedestrian lanes so that the boda boda riders don’t inconvenience us by using that lane so anyone who uses that lane and knocks down a pedestrian or even before knocking him because prevention is better than cure so if this rider is got trespassing in the pedestrian lane then he should be imprisoned so that he serves as an example, this could reduce accidents too. Pedestrians should have where to walk from. Yes.

Mod: is there anything more that explains the high number of road traffic crashes involving pedestrians in your community say human behaviors?
P5: we talked about that and that lady said that they need to be sensitized too because one may just walk and doesn’t know that vehicles are supposed to pass this side so I should use this side to cross like we were taught in school. Some children can even cross in a better way than adults so the government should sensitize all communities say they come to Wandegeya and sensitize us about proper crossing of the roads. Some people are illiterate about traffic lights too they don’t know when to cross or not so we need to be taught about this.

P5: but some are so stressed so they cross carelessly, a vehicle can stop right at his feet but this person is thinking about some issues.

Mod: but is this person sober or has taken something.

P7: some of them are sober but it is due to too much stress.

P8: then ‘’Kawunyemu’’ should be emphasized more because some get drunk.
Mod: the pedestrians?

P3: all categories, pedestrians, drivers.

P1: be it vehicle or pedestrian everyone should be stopped to enforce ‘’kawunyemu’’ but corruption, corruption, corruption.

Mod: What types of pedestrians do you think are most at risk? 
Chorus: school children
P2: business people who keep on running about

P6: even the poor people like us, we get so many injuries 

P8: the low income earners.

Mod: why?

P2: because we spend most of our time walking on the roads where the rich who have vehicles find us and knock us so we end up with our legs up in the health facilities.

P: the business people too on the road sides.

Mod: why are they at risk?

P2: the law enforcers keep on chasing them away from the road.

P1: then the disabled too have no access too for instance do you see that place there? [Points at the point of traffic lights in Wandegeya] there is a place for pedestrians but the disabled has no place/access of crossing to YMCA. I have seen disabled people being knocked down too because they can’t climb to the pedestrian lane.

P6: my supplement to that is that there are no particular stages for taxis they stop anywhere they see clients and these taxi drivers have a unique way of reasoning out issues which is not normal so as soon as they see a client they don’t mind if a child is there they don’t care and end up knocking them.

P7: then when this pedestrian sees a taxi parking in the middle of the road she/he doesn’t mind looking at the opposite sides of the road she just crosses because the taxi is waiting for her so the vehicle coming along knocks this person then the other taxi which was waiting for her will just take off.
P2: the xxxxxx pickup drivers don’t mind about pedestrians since they don’t easily stop when they knock down pedestrians they just continue.

Mod: they are taking a patient but create another injury

P2: and they ignore the causality they have knocked.

P5: even the vehicles for the leaders

P4: and the xxxxx officials too cause injuries to the people as they enforce the law, as they chase someone a vehicle can easily knock her down and they will just go.

P6: like that woman who died, they run after her and when she died they went.

P1: they chase people, they confiscate their merchandise 

P3: but I think we need public transport. This is because if the government provides this transport it will be beneficial when this child uses a bus this child who is going to Kawempe, Bat valley will be safe say from Kalerwe to Bat valley so she will not wait for a taxi which doesn’t follow the laws yet the public/government vehicle can follow the laws and equality then people will use them and will not have many challenges like if they are to use private means of transport because they decide on how to behave.

Mod: which other type of pedestrians are at a risk of injuries, we have the disabled, school children, the business community.
P2: and the street children too I wonder where they come from, they move in a group [they are xxxxxx] so it is the responsibility of KCCA … the taxi driver might drive safely then they come at once [crossing like squirrels] so they end up being knocked and people begin he he he hee, they should provide homes for those children because as she begs give me one hundred the green lights come up so these driver will not wait and as they drive off these children may cause accidents.
P1: then the other group of people at risk are the elderly, they cannot move fast because our roads are not well demarcated so this old person will cross from any point so they have to put proper signs of where we should cross from to help them cross.
P4: in addition to that the ditches/pothole whereby a boda boda rider fell in it and was with our colleague he fell in this ditch and fractured his leg, they just saw it abruptly. 
P8: then our traffic lights are not clear like at the Makerere University main gate is confusing [I was knocked from there] that one was hit from there, a boda rider was coming and the car too, one indicates that you can go while the other one is supposed to move too.

P6: the one from Makerere can show green then even the other side shows green.

P7: so you should give them that example and tell them to make those traffic lights right because we are knocked as we knock them too but all of us are given a go ahead to move. 
Then the one going up to Makerere was sorted [they are two of the kind] whereby you can go and press it according to what you want so one may want to go up and the other down [mod: do you have where to press?] yes [it was even aired on television] if you want to cross you can press yet the driver knows that it is his turn to go up so these lights are wrong and should be made right because ‘’Makerere is going to finish up people’’[several injuries are going to happen]

P1: they should be similar to the traffic lights in Wandegeya.

P2: then we have Kasubi in the corner, trailers are finishing children, the road was made in such a way that it is so narrow with a very big gap in the middle for flowers but it is for corpses because whoever is killed the body is put there[the space is enough for a car]
Two vehicles, a boda and a pedestrian cannot fit yet there is a very big space in the middle so the government should help and remove that middle space and make the road wide because we are not going to eat those flowers. If whoever is killed is thrown in the flowers will that please us? If not that as Ugandans we shall come out, riot and slash all of them. We are begging you, we are still humble. Recently a trailer smashed someone whom we buried in Kamwenge, he was working here in Wandegeya and could bring in our merchandise, but a trailer hit him with the behind part, so he fell in the tires and it stepped on him. Kasubi in the corner the gap left in the middle is not helpful to us, remove it and make the road wide, our challenge is the road not the flowers.

Mod: Qn. 3.Are you aware of any interventions in this community that are there for the purpose of improving road safety for pedestrians? 

P6: no we don’t have any.

P7: yes mum the government is supposed to have that purpose by making fly overs, put zebra crossings in place.

Mod: but is there anything in place?

Chorus: nothing is in place.

P8: because the other place too has no zebra crossing. [referring to the Wandegeya traffic lights place]

Mod: don’t you have any zebra crossing around here?

Chorus: there is nothing.

Mod: how about there?

P5: it is not there but the other side down.

P6: it is faded.

P1: they are there but not marked.

P3: it is at Norvik hospital and it was put after Buganda road school children were knocked, three of them and they would die on spot so that’s when it was put. And right now there is someone to help them cross but it was not the case before. And if you want to use that place you have to first cross here and the other side but if you want to cross in the middle part you cannot be successful.

Mod: so there is no intervention around here.

P: in addition to that even with a zebra crossing we need a police officer present because people may still be knocked and then the one responsible drives off so this policeman can save or follow the car or boda boda that has caused the injury.

Mod: so there isn’t any intervention here.

P6: there are traffic lights but a police personnel should be there too.

P4: people are always knocked this side can be allowed to go then a driver from a different side comes and knocks someone so police should be there too.

P2: even in Bwaise a boda boda man carrying beef was knocked too.

P1: for example look at that boy in a blue t-shirt, he is just crossing the way he feels like.

P3: let’s go to the next topic

P7: in addition to that just to give you an example of how the lights don’t help us cross, on 23rd December, they wanted to see if traffic lights would help better than the traffic police but on that day I slept on the road. Me the person speaking got home at 5:00am in Nansana, each one drove the way he felt like, they don’t want to respect traffic lights therefore the traffic police do help more than the traffic lights and the zebra crossings so all points with traffic lights should have traffic police too.
P5: my other request too is that these days KCCA put an advertisement on television but my request is for the community to follow what they are told to do or more sensitizations about road injuries so that people learn, this may reduce road injuries. 

Mod: what message is in the advertisement?

P5: it is about traffic lights so they say that one with a vehicle when this light is on then you should follow this instruction, if it is the other color then do that, then the green light but one should not move if he doesn’t follow what it has instructed him to do. So as the community we should follow what is instructed so that we reduce the injuries.

Mod: is there anything specific for pedestrians?

P: I have not yet seen that maybe my colleagues.

P8: the pedestrian is told that if the car has set off then move back ‘’tukwataganyize wamu tutaase ekibuga’’ [we should work hand in hand in order to save the city]

P5: some of us don’t watch TV by the time we get home we are so tired
P: then pressing that button

Mod: how about over the radio?
P2: it is run on the radio too but the community needs more sensitization.
P5: even the boda boda cyclists too, as people stop they just ride on. Actually am not as afraid on cars like I fear boda boda riders.
P6: I usually tell them that you are wrong, that sign meant that you should stop.

Mod: Qn.4. you mentioned KCCA but are there other organizations/agencies are implementing road safety programs/interventions targeting pedestrians in your community? 

P: none.

P8: I don’t know about that.

P: nothing.

Mod: how about the zebra crossing?

P8: it’s the traffic officer who helps the pedestrians crossing the road.

Mod: who put up the Norvik zebra crossing?

P2: it might be the hospital or xxxx primary school because children from Buganda road were the ones knocked down.
P: there is even a man who helps them to cross the road.
P: in fact, if it wasn’t for that school then it wouldn’t have been there because it is the school that took up the responsibility to save its children, so they put that one and if it was the government it wouldn’t have put it in only that place they would have been spread in other places. This implies that my request is that the government would have had that example and helps the other people.

Mod: but before putting that zebra were you consulted like the way we have come to you?

P: we were not consulted

P3: it seems the parents complained because three children died.

P5: you are the first people to come here.

Mod: Qn.5.okay like we said that we shall be fast, we are about to finish. So please tell us about any road safety programs/interventions that you would like to see expanded or introduced to your community?  You have briefly mentioned some of them.

P7: zebra crossings, humps, more traffic officials

P6: then the traffic lights at Makerere.

P2: but if possible boda boda riders would have vacated some of the roads and then given other roads because the first trouble causers are the boda boda riders because the moment one gets money to buy a motorcycle the next thing is putting a passenger and riding they don’t go for training. The moment they buy they put luggage which luggage is a student or me. So they may stop somewhere like in Kisenyi and I will not go there because I know they will knock me from there. Like this community has children in nursery, primary who are knocked over no reason just because they are illiterates who don’t know that they are supposed to get permits.

P3: in addition to that we need to borrow a leaf from Rwanda where boda bodas stop in a certain place, they have a green color and if you are found riding without the green color you are arrested. So we should copy that and implement it in Uganda too.
Secondly, am still talking about those who inconvenience the pedestrians the government should enforce the law, they shouldn’t just take the bribes but punish them. This could help.

P2: drivers should learn how to organize their vehicles for example the Namungoona incidence with the fuel vehicle, one had nowhere to run for rescue the whole place was congested with cars, motorcycles and pedestrians so we should learn to be organized. There is a country I watched, they were so organized in that an ambulance could pass in the middle.

Mod: please elaborate more about being organized.

P6: by making lines during traffic jam, if it is a two lane then we make two lines so that an ambulance has space, in case of an emergency you can make a u turn. But in Namungoona where that vehicle was burnt no one could move be it a pedestrian or bicycle rider apart from falling onto the ditch. [omwaaala]

P7: increase road signs and sensitize people about them because most of the time they teach the drivers only.

Mod: but is this driver knowledgeable too?

P7: no that’s why I told you about too much corruption, one has learnt from xxxxx (fake schools ) so he comes to try out and see if he has learnt but he fails and when found he pays some money and is let free.

Mod: so road signs

P1: should be put on the roads and taught to people.

P2: in addition to what she said, I have a friend who has driven a car for … years but has never got a driving permit, he drives passengers in a taxi.

P7: these days one can get it without learning.

Mod: what should we do about that?

P7: deal with corruption.

P3: issue cards which cannot be duplicated then the pedestrian lanes turned into markets yet this market has no people occupying it. These people sell from the pedestrian lanes and when you step on their goods you have to pay, some of them are ‘’bayaaye’’ [criminals] he can kick you to death they beat up people after taking drugs you pass by and don’t buy from him he can beat you to death.

Mod: has this increased the pedestrian injuries?

P4: yes because the place where pedestrians would have passed is where they sell from, there is a saucepan of porridge…

P5: if you walk and knock a cup he throws you into the road where the boda boda knocks you from and he will continue with his work.
P6: and that porridge has no time in the morning they can give you porridge, day they give you porridge, they would have put those things in the evening but that’s when most people are knocked down. So those street vendors too are a problem and authority should take this into consideration because they get money from them, if you went there now she could give you a receipt from authority that’s the corruption we are talking about so they should chase away the street vendors from the roads so that pedestrians can have where to pass.

Mod: the markets are available.

P: they have no people.

P5: let them come and we work.

Mod: was there any intervention like she said that the zebra as put there after knocking the Buganda road children, so was there any intervention that was put there as a response of public outcry?

Chorus: no.

P4: but they have put several traffic lights in different places

P1: but they are too much [complicated] so they cause accidents too.

P4: but there is an improvement.

P: some take you to the Makerere gate some down some the other side, generally

P: they’ve been put wherever there are many roads and from my view there is an improvement so we should give credit where it should be.

Mod: so they have implemented but sensitization of the community is lacking.

Chorus: yes.
P: the traffic lights are good especially at Makerere and I have no problem with them, they don’t stop one for five minutes but people don’t know how to use them so they find it as a challenge.

Mod: then they have to press something.

P1: sensitization is needed but the traffic lights are good. Someone will come from Kyagwe and just drive on because he is ignorant about them.

P6: even sign posts

P7: so sensitization, like over the radio and should be free, if it includes a cost.

Mod: how should they be sensitized because it has come out most, then road signs.

P7: they should come like you came, one day the market, then the park like that but cover different communities.

P6: you may use loud speakers over there people will come

P2: radio, TV
P4: there are so many TV stations I don’t know the number
P1: use the Luganda stations NTV people will not understand English 
P: use Bukedde, Spark.
P3: on Bukedde either before news or after, like these soaps which attract women so if there is a sensitization session I will sit and listen.
Mod: anything else?
P: I read something here…
Mod: we are going to settle that.

Thank you very much for your time and views.

…………………………………………END……………………………………

Date of interview		
Interviewer	xxxx	
Note Taker	xxxx	
Category of respondent	BODA BODA RIDERS	
Duration of interview	01.11 minutes	
Transcribed by	xxxx	

M: Thank you very much and further still I request that as we speak we should increase on our voices so that we can record them clearly. 
1.	In this community, what road safety concerns do you have? 
P4- To me I say that most pedestrians who use these roads are careless about their lives, which has caused a lot of accidents and have come as a result of using phones. You find that a pedestrian puts on headsets in the ears, and starts moving on the road. Even if you are riding and hooting at him, he will continue to walk, so I have observed many people being knocked down as a result of having headsets in the ears. Therefore I start by saying that, if they are to reduce on incidents of accidents mostly in busy areas in the city, they should ban people who move around listening to music while walking. Secondly most accidents which take place at that spot where you were, most accidents come as a result of failure of breaking. When most of the vehicles are sloping down wards near CPS, the taxis, I suspect that their servicing is at times poor, because for most of them which slope from CPS, when someone tries to stop, he discovers that the breaks are no longer working. So accidents happen as a result of failure to stop. Hence something has to be done; whether humps should be put in such areas otherwise I have seen several accidents like 5 of them due to failure of breaks working.
M: How about others, what concerns do you have? As we assigned you numbers, when you are giving your responses you free to speak without mentioning your name, for us we shall know your number.
P1. For me what I think mostly causes accidents is poor riding techniques on the road. For us as Boda Boda riders who work in Kampala, there are some people who joined us yet are working outside Kampala. No one is stopping them from coming in the city, he comes from Kagoma, he comes from Entebbe and starts riding from town and when he rides he meanders everywhere. Even when someone is crossing, for you who know the riding of the city, you stop but see him just crossing besides anyhow and knocking someone. When you try to find out, this person is working from outside the city. Secondly pedestrians have their own mistakes which they make while crossing the road. As he is crossing, he doesn’t bother to look at where the vehicles are coming from. He merely walks thinking about other things without minding about where the vehicles are coming from. Sometimes this causes accidents and knocking down of people. In addition the traffic officers who work from the roads and arrest vehicles, sometimes they stop vehicles and they refuse to stop, so he continues chasing after it. In so doing due to fear of being arrested, he bumps into a pedestrian and knocks you down. There is an accident that happened here and the pedestrian is still in Mulago hospital. The traffic officers stopped a vehicle and in order to disappear, they knocked down a pedestrian who was moving alongside the road and he was knocked down, up to now the person is in Mulago, hence that accident was caused by the traffic officer. Because the vehicle had already moved, he would have written down its number plate and traced for it later. He continued chasing after it and due to fear, the driver just had to knock someone. Hence what causes accidents are due to us the boda boda riders and the traffic officers themselves? He can come in civilian and he attacks you and arrests you, in such confusion as you are running away for fear of being arrested you end up finding someone and knocking him. Those are the major causes of accidents that I know about.
P3- in addition, you see those roads, they are not also in good condition. For most people to cross a road, they need to be well directed. Some of us delay to understand, so when you look at these roads, they are not well demarcated reason being that there are no lines where one can know that, if am crossing, where have I reached?’’ this is because for example at Kampala road there are 2 lanes, this side and the other side and there are no lines in the middle which can separate those lanes. Hence if somebody is crossing the road, he can stand and his mind tells him that possibly he is still standing at the side of the road yet he is in the middle of the road and he looks at you to see whether you will stop and he will look at you and contemplate whether you are going to cross or not and he doesn’t know what he is doing. Hence for some of those vehicles, you find that they have packed on the road sides and reduce on the size of the road. Yet the road has 2 lines and there are 2 vehicles coming, so they start squeezing each other with the people who are crossing the road. This is because you may come and at times think as the other one is crossing, the second lane when someone has packed there, there are no lines in the road to know whether am on the first lane or the second lane because when someone is crossing the road, you know we always want to be directed, that yes as am crossing the road but where have I reached? Then a car driver comes when he has lost his mind and lacks where to pass and knocks you. When I go back to the point where my colleague started, even the phones are an issue, someone can get hold of his phone and puts it on the ears and crosses the road while talking on phone, and all the thoughts have been taken by the phone call. He is in the middle of the road and he doesn’t know where he has reached. Then you hoot at him, at times you see the person jumping forward so that you can pass behind him, yet you see him moving a step backwards. Yet when he gets shocked at seeing you and moves a step backwards, he gets knocked down, such incidences.
P6- For me it has ever happened to me, it was a pot hole because as I was riding, I fell into a pot hole and as  tried to come out of it, I knocked down a pedestrian who was walking at the roadside.
M: Okay which means even the pot-holes can bring problems?
All-yes
P7- For me another thing am observing as a person, are the traffic officers who work on the road and what this colleague of mine has just said that pedestrians take long to understand . Like on our road, there may be 2 lines such that if one person is moving from the city square coming to mabiriizi, they at times release the vehicles at once and someone is looking downwards, eventually he discovers that you have knocked him because he didn’t know that you were also coming, So when they release all of them at once, someone just knows that these ones are going upwards and the others are sloping downwards. So when he dodges the one sloping down he tries to cross yet the one coming from down is also coming upwards and they knock him. Then he crosses the first part and stands in the middle facing down, as he crosses, as you know the boda boda, when he hoots, the person gets shocked and is knocked. Hence most people are affected by these roads because they don’t know. For you in the city, may know it but someone who has come from the village doesn’t know about it. He knows that I have crossed as I move towards CPS.
M: I have not yet understood that road very clearly?
P7- As someone crosses, they release all the vehicles from up
M: Okay instead of knowing that these ones are going up and these ones are going down.
P7- yes, he only focuses on the one coming from down without focusing on those coming from up in anyway.
M: They would also have knocked me as well because I don’t understand that spot.
All- that’s it
M: So what do you think can be done for such a spot?
P6- You know there are 2 lanes on this side and on the other side as well, So the 2 lanes are going upwards and the other 2 lanes are going downwards. So, because of a lot of jam most times, you find the one sloping and then another one going upwards and they change it to take another direction as well, so both lanes going upwards and those sloping downwards are al moving the same direction. So, someone crossing, his thoughts show him that he has to face this direction where they are coming from, yet they have released them, so by the time he realizes, he has been knocked down.
M: What do you think can be done to solve such a thing?
P8-That one is a traffic officer’s problem because first of all they mind so much about putting things right because he came to reduce on the jam of the vehicles.
P3- His minds are on the vehicles and not on the pedestrians. For them most of the times they are on the road, they mind so much on the vehicles, without knowing that there are people crossing as well, so he at times wants to clear jam very fast without minding about people who cross amidst that road, because first of all before you bring a vehicle to the second line which is going to the other side, he has to alert the people who want to cross to first wait whereby he would have told people to first wait and allow vehicles cross. So, he first waits and sees the vehicles crossing yet there is someone who has already crossed and is standing in the middle, by the time he realizes, they have knocked the person, that’s why we say it results from the traffic officers.
P4- Another way to solve the problem is that they would enlarge on the zebra crossing whereby people can cross very easily. In addition, the pedestrians don’t follow the traffic rules in any way because for me I know that you have to walk while facing the vehicle but at times it refuses to stop and you are merely walking behind it. Hence people walk anyhow, they should change and ensure that as they walk, they should be cautious about it in that if an accident is almost going to happen, you are able to see it and save yourself. But when the vehicles is coming from your back, you cannot know because there is a bus which failed to stop and eventually stopped at mabiriizi but if you are a person who was walking, those ones who were walking ran and came back.
P5- Even in Nateete there was an accident which took place recently. There was a vehicle which failed to stop, people shouted and a boda boda man saw it coming and ran off from his boda and ran and left his boda there and all the people were knocked down and this was a result of people’s carelessness to see.
P3- For me am grumbling about people’s behavior, like those one who dig out on roads and leave some holes, are the ones am unhappy about. One time it happened to me where by they dug a hole full of water, when I tried to dodge it, I found a woman, I splashed water at her and in-front there was a vehicle, then I stopped and people who were in civilian arrested me, complaining that I have knocked the woman but on reaching her, I realized that the water I splashed at her was the problem. I asked for forgiveness from the woman and she started abusing me that boda boda men are not wise in any way. ”Go I have nothing to do for you.” So, people who dig pot holes on the road and leave some holes, whether they are from authority, I don’t know.
P6- In fact if am to add on what this colleague of mine has said 
P3-Secondly the traffic officers nowadays use these other wardens who put on civilian clothes. You pass from one side knowing that you have left the traffic officer the other side and you well know that no one will arrest you and then you stop, amidst stopping you see someone coming while looking at your boda keys, yet the boda boda is still making noise. For me I refused to be taken ever since they started arresting us, while in that mood, I immediately had to disappear, I refused to be arrested. One time they brought a vehicle called Nalufenya. You hear colleagues saying Nalufenya has come, so for me to be dropped in that vehicle to go to Nalufenya, I can’t accept, I would rather abandon the motorcycle and go away or knocking you and run away.  In addition, let the traffic wardens handle us in a good way as they put us in that Nalufenya vehicle, (all laughed) let them take us well and condemn us in a right order.
M: So you fear being taken to Nalufenya?
ALL-yes, that is what our colleagues fear and run away and they end up causing accidents and knocking pedestrians 
P7- like the one I told you who was taken to Nalufenya, as I was there, they continued following him they were following a taxi and after it had by passed them, they continued following him and arrested him. When they grab you they put you in that vehicle and take you to CPS and when you reach there, even if the case is small they tell you that they want 800000/= or else they take you to Luzira and arrest you for 3 months. So in order to rescue yourself, when you see that vehicle following you, you run away and whichever person you meet, you just knock him because at times you have not understood what they are chasing you. 
P4- Possibly people have not understood the Nalufenya we are talking about. There is Nalufenya the prison I think you hear about it. Now we have a moving Nalufenya vehicle a land cruiser.
M: I thought that they have brought Nalufenya to the city center 
P4- They just nicknamed it Nalufenya, if they arrest you, they put you in that vehicle and take you CPS and you are put indoors.  It’s a sort of some kind of suffering which you encounter because your heart pumps so fast and you are diverted from what you are doing. P5- That vehicle has caused a lot of accidents on the road. They hide it besides the road.

M: Let’s give chance to this man, who has not yet said anything, which kind of complaint are you having regarding reducing on accidents of pedestrians?
P1- City council, we want it to put there zebra crossing because it’s the one which is responsible for those things such as road signs. It is the one which organizes them, so it would be tracking so well and organize where people cross from so that accidents can be reduced, whereby people can be careful while crossing. Further still, the potholes on the pavements, let them level them well so that people can try to move so well. Let them cover those holes because those holes have covers, but people refuse to walk from the road side or the pavements and start walking from the road itself which causes them to get accidents. They fear to fall into those deep holes because they are so deep and yet not covered; hence people fear them a lot. So they claim that they have been knocked from the roadside yet they have been avoiding falling in the hole and he enters into the road and instead knocked from there.
P6- What he has said is right, you see here at JAVAS Kampala road opposite POSTA Uganda, the people who worked there did a very big job, there is a zebra crossing, there is a posture of a man raising up his hand and going to cross and everyone can be observant but here at equatorial when there is jam, you see traffic officers coming not to help the people who are crossing but to reduce on the jam. They first stop all the vehicles coming from Equatorial side and on shamba complex side; they release all of them so that jam reduces. Now the ones coming from Kisekka side crossing and going to shamba complex... They calculate the other side of shamba complex for the vehicles which are moving upwards. Then he looks at those ones coming from the other side of mukwaano mall which are moving upwards and he looks at that side, after looking there and not seeing any vehicle coming he just crosses, yet they have released the ones on the upper side and they knock all the people who had crossed. You just hear another one coming from one way. In such cases the traffic officers are to blame because the release vehicles in two roads at ago yet they are one way. The other ones have to move upwards and the others have to slope downwards. For them they claim that their intension is to reduce on jam but instead release all vehicles to slope down at ago and in so doing knocking and causing accidents.
P4- Police should also continue to fight against drug addiction, many people are using drugs, and at times you see him as if he is seeing you yet actually he is under the influence of drugs during the day yet kawunyemu is put there during night time. People move while taking packed alcohol in polythene bags. You see someone failing to manage the vehicle, now like in our area, at mabiriizi, there is a man who was always drunk and he died from there during the day, without anyone giving attention to him.
M: Was he a pedestrian?
P4- Yes he was a pedestrian, he just fell down and he first took alcohol early in the morning 
P7- Some people have their own sicknesses
P4- Imagine in the morning when everyone is buying what he wants 
P1- Let there be appropriate time for opening bars, imagine at 7:00, someone is seated in a bar boozing.
M: Some people said that there are those who move with alcohol while drinking, or they will have bought it already?
All-no they buy it in the morning 
P3- Now like the one whom he was talking about who was knocked, the one he said that he is in mulago, he was always drunk and yet working. Anyway you may find a driver, yes but even the other one, the way he was in the road while drunk, pretending as if he was doing traffic work yet very drunk.
P5- Hence alcohol also influences people; you never know if he wasn’t drunk, he wouldn’t have got such an accident.
P2- Something else that I see causing accidents, you find a road having 2 lanes but the drivers create a third lane or even a fourth one. So, the person who is crossing that road at times gets confused, if the road consists of enough space where someone can pass. So if at all they create 4 lanes, as you look for space where to pass you knock a pedestrian, he has not seen you and you have not seen him, you end up knocking him. You understand?
M: yes
P2- Let the traffic officers respond to the road, if it is of 2 lanes and they find some driver creating a third lane to be condemned, but for them they don’t care about such case. There are 2 lanes, yet 3 are created and the whole road is being filled with vehicles. But from there you hear them shouting on the radios that boda boda cyclists are riding badly, yet those drivers are the ones that are making boda boda cyclists to ride badly. This is because if they make 3 lanes, they have not left any space for a boda boda cyclist to pass. You find him instead climbing a pavement where there are people, because even the customers whom we ride are in a hurry, they run out of vehicles and jump on our boda boda saying ‘’I want to rush time has gone’’ telling us. He has boarded so that you make him reach fast to where he is going but the road has been blocked by jam, yet you want to take him and also come back and take other customers. So you will also be forced to line up behind vehicles. The customer you are carrying is telling you that take me right now because he has a car but has packed it, so you have to devise means of helping him move very fast because he is on time.
M: Anyway as we wind up on that issue, is there anything else because you have talked about many things which explain why there are many accidents which are got by pedestrians? You have talked about the roads whereby they change the lanes, someone comes carelessly, in-fact you have cautioned me, I will never cross that area carelessly because I have always been looking on one side as you have said.
P4- and still that’s not the only place, wherever you walk from if at all you are in Kampala
M: So wherever I go I have to be very careful
All- it’s every where
M: and we have talked about everything, and how about the issue of not having things which can reduce on the speed for the vehicles such as humps.
P3- You see, not everywhere that they can put humps, it depends, on Kampala road, as you see it they cannot put there humps, it’s not easy but there are some places where you see that it’s not necessary like around kisekka, it depends. There are some roads where you see it impossible to put there humps.
M: Why do you say that?
P3- Anyway, such roads for example on Kampala road, humps are mostly put on roads such as high ways, but this one is town service, so if you put there humps, you realize that the speed will be over reduced.
M: So we are supposed to drive at a low speed?
P3- Yes as an area where people are very busy, we are not supposed to drive at 80 or 70, we have to drive at 20.
P4- In busy places they normally use zebra crossing and they are mostly used
P3- Yes because you know that wherever I find a zebra crossing, I have to slow down. There are roads which you see like Kampala road, if you put there many humps, in fact it’s not even smart in any way; there are some roads which you have to honor as a person. You have to respect every road and as a person, who uses it, use an appropriate speed. Look at the people. And as a driver who has to drive a vehicle, they tell you that you have to drive around 5 or 6 vehicles, you are in only one, and while on the road you should know that you are the only one who knows, all the others don’t know. So, you have to drive those ones who don’t know in their category as people who don’t know and you weigh them that the other one and the other one don’t know and you do what is worthy of you as a driver. Therefore the problem that we have is that those drivers on the road have driving permits but they don’t know how to drive because at this time we not only merely get permits, we just buy them.
P6- They find us at home.
P3- You understand, there is getting a permit and buying it. Somebody who gets a permit is the one who has gone through procedures and is tested and he is given a permit. Nowadays they no longer get them but instead buy them. You just get your money, go and see someone who issues driving permits, he has asked you for 350,000/= and the moment you give it to him, Then within a week you will have got a permit. Then he will go regarding testing, he goes and pays there money and bribing them. Eventually he comes and gives you a paper that you go to Kyambogo such that they scan your face and put it on, and then you go back the second time and get a permit. So, such people have permits but they don’t know how to drive. They were not tested because permits were just bought and all this comes from the government because government workers themselves who issue those permits are the ones they give money and people fail to come for testing and fail to make people go through the right procedures because if at all you come to my place with the money and yet I have not seen the other person, why should I work on your case? Because there is an incident where a parent will come in need of a birth certificate for his child, even if he doesn’t bring his child, you are going to get an important document because it doesn’t belong to you as a person, but it for the nation, which means that you are going to carry people. So why should I give it to you yet I have not seen the person who need it, because you have got someone to work on it. There are some questions they ask you and you answer them and someone will understand that what you have come for, you understand it. You go there and they test you and give you a permit when you have surely gone through a sieve.
P5- but nowadays we no longer go there. 
P3- For me I processed my permit, for a whole year and I went and got the general receipt. By the time I went for testing, they took me back and they told me that my provision was over. Then they told me to buy another provision and I inquired that if I buy it I then come back to the queue? They told me to just come back because I had already booked. I processed it myself but others just pay money and the following day, they give you a permit.
M: So, how has this affected these accidents?
P3- It has caused accidents which mean that they drive on the road without knowing the regulations, they drive anyhow without minding about people yet he has a permit but he doesn’t know what he is doing.
P7- I for one am saying that okay what he has said is correct but in Kampala here, most accidents happen in the middle of the city but most of all that we need are the road signs. It is very important in Kampala here as a busy city. So, those issues of driving at a high speed are for people who don’t know how to drive because there is no one who drives at a speed of 100, but the biggest problem we have are the roads, first of all, the roads that we have as compared to a population of 10 million people are the same roads we are having even when we are now about 20 million people. They have never added on, the one we had are the same roads that we have were planned for 10 million people, but they are now being used by a population of more than 20 million people, yet the roads are not increased, whereby you are supposed to put there all road signs which show that someone is crossing from here and secondly there should be sensitizing people on the way they should cross the road. As they put there traffic lights, they also put there a stopping light but the people don’t know how to use it. There is a light which tells you to stop if you are a pedestrian and there is another one which directs you to cross, but the people here know that these lights are for the vehicles yet the people also have to wait for the other light to cross, but the people here don’t know it. So, the road signs will reduce on accidents in Kampala if at all they put them there. They will help us in busy areas.
M: Okay we have talked about pedestrians who are mostly knocked. Which kinds of pedestrians are most exposed?
P4- The women because most times I have been carefully been observant, when a woman is crossing a road, there may be stepping on each other. From today you be observant, if she is crossing the road, she is like a cow, she doesn’t look on the side, she is only facing in one direction, and I don’t know whether they are thoughts or what I don’t know. Yet if you are crossing a road you have to look on the right and on the left and even if you are going in the middle of the road, you don’t have to say that I looked there and I finished, the road is wide. You could have looked there when the other one was still at a high speed and he knocks you, so the women are like that.
M: So the women are not careful while crossing?
P4- Yes, secondly the drunkards, they have the same way of crossing like the women,
P2- even the lame, there is a lame man who was knocked and the driver could not know that he has knocked him down.
M: He was crossing and he was knocked or…..?
All- he was crossing while crawling ad the driver could not see him, he just got stuck in the wheels.
P3- this man who was a shoe mender and he could carry his chair 
P4- He was brushing shoes
P1- They used to call him kojja (uncle) 
P6- But he was drinking a lot of alcohol, you know the hands were behind and he was moving while looking upwards but here on the stomach, that’s where his bottle of waragi was always. Every time he could drink and then move,
P8- Something else which we request city council to do is that it should make for us a speed limit such that it helps us, because if someone enters the city and is driving at a speed of 80, he will not save the people. An example is that do you see at the clock tour, where there is a bridge for people who are going to katwe kinyoro, that bridge was blocked when it was going to fall but the government abandoned the people, it no longer cares about the people, they had also put there a big hump, it banged the president and he jumped in the air and they removed it (all laughed) do you think they left it there? They removed it.
P4- Why did the put it there?
P3- Immediately when it banged him, he had not known that they had put it there. If it was in the evening, in the morning they woke up to destroy it. People are in danger because I even see them shed tears as they are going to cross but the WARID saw city council wanting to put there advertisement but they no longer pass there.
P2- For me am saying where the roads are very busy, let them help us and put there a fly over such that they can help the people.
P3- Because some places are hard to cross, there are times when you want to cross and for one hour you are standing waiting to get where to cross from and you cannot find it.
P4- Someone can cross up to the middle of the road and then he sees vehicles coming and he moves backwards. He can come into the middle of the road and fails to cross.
M: I would like us to wind up on the other issue of the other woman who crosses the road like a cow without looking on both the sides of the road. Which other categories of people, we have seen women and children, who are the most exposed.
P4- The children find a hard problem, the problem they find, in fact we request the government to ensure that wherever there is a zebra crossing, there is a traffic officer and his work is to help people cross including helping children cross because they normally come and stand there without having anyone to help them cross. At times we give them a boda boda man to help them cross, but you really discover that they are having problems. Where there is no zebra yet people cross from there, you really see that they finding it very hard. But if there are many zebra crossings and the child knows that am going to the zebra crossing and there is a warden to help me, the accidents will reduce.
P2- Even if there is no one to help children to cross but if there is a zebra crossing and there is a traffic officer standing there, even the driver fears that traffic officer. But even if the zebra is there but yet with no traffic officer there, they don’t mind about that.
P5- but where are the zebra crossings, they are not there 
P3- What he has talked about, if you want to know, from the children of Nakasero, if you want to know you go there at 4:00pm when they have released them?
P1- or even in the morning
P3- in the morning they are very few, but they are mostly there at 4:00pm, you see every child crossing the road anyhow.
M: Which means that even where there are schools they should put there crossings.
P7- You see a young short child crossing the road and you are even unable to see her, bad enough, they don’t stop, the moment they decide to cross, they don’t want to know. You are the one who understands on their behalf that there is someone crossing, because at times you don’t see him, he enters a vehicle and then moves out of it, you find yourself knocking that child.
Even though we have talked about the zebra but every child passes where he wishes. That is where we have found a problem.
M: Now in this area, are there any programs that you follow with an intension of hindering accidents for pedestrians on the road? You have talked about the zebra
All- they are not there
P4- Because the problem is not ours but for the government or city council because it is the one responsible. Actually I at all they find you trying on your behalf as a person that you are repairing a road, they will arrest according to the law, you are not allowed. If you organize as a person or you decide like 100 people that let’s put here a zebra crossing they can arrest you that you are destroying a road, yet what you actually want to  do is to help the people because they have not bothered, hence it is their responsibility. You see the roads in the villages, you may find a hole in the middle of the road and you pour there soil trying to cover it, they will arrest you, yet you are blocking a hole and they have seen it and not bothered. Therefore it’s up to them, for us as people we don’t know the programs that they have made, the ones that we are just seeing are not there.
P1- For me there is an announcement that I heard, I don’t know if you have not yet heard about it, it means there is somewhere they have reached, if they can continue to teach and talk about them, what they are on, how the program has to move.
P2- But they just show the traffic light.
P1- But let them put in more effort, like to sensitize the people, you see us talking about all this but there is a lot of ignorance, people don’t know what to do.
M: In the whole of Kampala, isn’t there any kind of arrangement put in place to ensure that the pedestrian accidents are reduced?
All- We has not heard about it.
P4- Unless it is in their bedrooms where they plan from.
P1- We can’t tell you what they have on table without passing over to people. Otherwise there is no program moving that we can say is going to reduce on accidents.
P3- except what I heard was to build fly roads but ever since they spoke about it, there is no sign that shows anything going on as you know things here, they talk about it and throw in the basket. They get the money and eat it. I don’t know what is going on but it was spoken about, because if at all they are built, it can also reduce on accidents.
M: Now in the whole city there is no space where the pedestrians can move from?
P4-For me I know at the zebra crossing where people can cross very well and the zebra crossing which is mostly well respected in Kampala is one at the post office.
P5- But it has killed many people and respectable people who were crossing to go to the post office because they are carrying things to go to their buses or to bring things at the post office. S very many responsible people were knocked from that zebra crossing. So they put a lot of restrictions on that zebra and they put their traffic men who could monitor as people were crossing and the speed limit. So what we only want city council to help us is to put there speed limit in the whole city because it is full of zebra crossings in that if every driver knows that in the city you don’t drive beyond the speed of 30, you are not going to knock people but if they don’t introduce speed limit, it will mean that accidents are not going to stop because in the city everyone is moving anyhow, the problems we have are many, you cross without minding that you have been crossing.
P3- Someone comes to look for money for eating for his people but it reaches in the evening when he has not got it, the thoughts are not there, he wonders about what they are going to eat. You find him talking alone on the road, how are you going to condemn that one that he crossed badly. He doesn’t have money to buy food for his people, he is so poor. So, he crosses when the thoughts are at home.
P5- even the stress has increases amongst people because as he is going to cross he says, they will take porridge 
P4- the children have been sent home for school fees 
P7- In addition you find someone driving but speaking alone, he speaks and you think that there is someone he is within the vehicle, when you peep through the window you discover that he is alone and speaking to himself and to the steering, but the problems that he has, he drives when the thoughts are somewhere else. If you try to beat on the vehicle he will jump as if he was sleeping, his thoughts are very far.
M: Now you have talked about zebra, down there around diamond trust, I see as if they put there a zebra crossing.
ALL- it is not there, 

P4- they had put it at city square but now it is invisible, you cannot see it.
M: Which means they are put there but they fade away
All-yes 
P2- and there is no sign 
P5- then some of them spends like a month and they fade away
M: So you mean they are put there but they fade away and there is no sign post
ALL-no
M: Did they consult you before they put them there 
P6- City council doesn’t consult anyone 
P4- the city planners are the ones who think in their brains about what needs to be done. There are some people inside there from whom they would have made research so that they combine and do the right thing. What the planner rises up thinking is what they do and use which are not original and they mix paint which is fake and start painting. Within one or two weeks, they will have faded away. So, they end up budgeting a lot of money, yet they have mixed the paint from there. 
M: Which has not helped?
P4-no it doesn’t help
M: How about Safe Boda, have you heard about it or have you been involved in it?
P3- As for Safe Boda I went there and had wanted to join it but I came back without joining it. Ask me why?
M: Why?
P3- I reached there and those Safe Boda people tell you that you will be paying this amount of money, let us be paying for you the tax, and let’s get for you the permit. I left home when I had gone to plan for money, I didn’t have money. I had brought the boda alone, it does have a license, permit, and it doesn’t have a stage, all of those things. For them the moment you pay them the money, you are putting on their jacket, which is the same. Something which I see that safe boda has helped about is only one thing, if you are putting on their jackets; you have to stop where there are traffic lights.
M: Do they sensitize you?
All-yes
P3- and you follow the laws
P4-even if you have by-passed them, when they see you, they condemn you. That is what I see but the rest…
P5- Because everyone is one another’s spy in safe boda. If you are putting on their jacket and you by pass the traffic lights, the number which they have on the jacket is what I cram and I report to our leader who leads us that so and so, with such a number has by passed the traffic lights or is carrying 2 people.
M: But hasn’t it reduced on pedestrian accidents 
All- no it has not helped in anyway
P5- Even the way they ride their bodas on the road is not safe. How are you safe while riding on the road when your motorcycle doesn’t have a license? How are safe when you ride without a permit. It means they have just put it there.
P4- They are looking for money
P2- the motor cycle doesn’t have good tyres, it doesn’t have an indicator, and they are just inefficient.
P4- as you sees our boda, that’s the same way it is 
M: What does it do?
P4- It also gives 2 helmets, they planned that you go there and they change your oil, but that oil, but they receive that money for service. They opened up a shop for motor cycle spare parts.
P3- Safe Boda has tried to sensitize us but as people our brains are the ones which disobey while on the road. But during sensitization, they would have said that to give you our things to ensure that you are safe, you ought to come with a motorcycle having all the requirements. How? You may find someone riding a motor cycle but with no side mirrors. It is not safe for you the rider because you have to ensure that as you are going to make a corner you are able to see someone coming from behind and you can use it on the main road to find out whether there is someone who wants to bypass you. But it doesn’t have a side mirror, it has no license, it has no indicator, it has no break lights, even the tyres have run out and you have not bought new ones, but you are putting on helmet and imagine that you are safe, you are not.
M: You are not safe.
P1- For me I would like to talk about safe boda, if it is giving marks out of 100 I can give it 80, even though my colleagues have despised it. I have not yet joined it but I know that it has done a great work. Whatever we are talking about safe boda, in Uganda we are still learning, it just needs to be encouraged. All countries if you have ever moved, they move in a circle, police wouldn’t have run after someone, they just look for your number and they call they call the circle that so and so has committed such a crime but here we have people who are in the taxis, they are in bodas, they have no leaders but with safe, its meaning is not only for boda bodas or anything else but they come teaching us but Ugandans take long to understand, we need a lot of sensitization but it has done a great job, it just needs to be improved, you understand;
M: yes
P1- The grumbles that are still there will fade away.
M: But according to you has it done anything as regards reducing on pedestrian accidents?
P1- Sometimes it comes accidentally for him to by-pass the lights, at times they release the pedestrians and in so doing as he tries to ride off, he ends up knocking someone. If safe has reached somewhere, let it be improved, if it is a rule that all of us should join it, we shall but it needs a circle, even if it’s not that one but, anyway you see our chairman has no authority.
M: He has no authority over you?
All- laughed- no he doesn’t have authority 
M: Why?
P1- Previously when we started riding boda bodas, the chairman and his executive, if you come while dirty, he will take you back, if you don’t have a helmet, it takes you back but those things are now no more,
P4- We behave anyhow
P7- For some of us even the society we are in, you know our upbringing is different. We can discuss about something as we are right here, and one person despises it and another one and the others also start despising it. Even the chairman you have appointed as chairman starts speaking when you are not listening to him. He also gets discouraged, which means even us as individuals we ought to respect ourselves so that we can make something move forward. For anything if it is to proceed, even if it is a short man or a young man who is appointed as your leader, look at him as a person. If he tells you that Mr. so and so, don’t do such a thing, listen to it even if you are older than him as long as you chose him as your leader.
M: Now you talked about KCCA as the one which paints our zebra crossings and they fade away in a week’s time, which other organization that you see has tried like we talked about safe boda, anyway it has tried to ensure that it puts in place things which can try to reduce on accidents for pedestrians on the road.

P8- Possibly Red Cross, sometimes they are the ones who paint those zebras and at times help people to cross
M: Okay Red Cross helps people to cross what else? And when Red Cross are painting those zebras, do they tell you?
All-no
P3- they get permission from KCCA I think 
P4- Sometimes they have seminars, in that week you find that they have to paint the zebra crossing, they sensitize people on how to use the roads. So they normally secure a week for that.
M: Now for the zebra crossings, which ones are we talking about?
P4- the one of Bank of Uganda
M; Where else and which ones faded away?
P3- Mapeera house
P2- Norvik Hospital, I just like that 
P4- even the one around kisekka 
P3- Kampala road is the one which has one major zebra crossing but the others are taken as minor.
M: Let’s start with the one at Kampala road, do you think it was put there as a result of public demand or why do you think it was put there?
P4- There were many big people who were knocked from there 
P7- For me I think the reason as to why it was put there, there were many buses parking there, so to enable their people cross well, that is why they put there a zebra crossing.
P5- You know, the way things are now, these ones in authority when they are doing something, they look for what benefits them, where they pass. That is why even if they are making roads, you can imagine the high ranked people in this country come from there. In xxxx, xxxxx, the roads that side, you know I frequently go there, thy have constructed roads that side, you understand  but Kampala is the biggest city, there are many roads which people go through, it is true, let them make them because they have to make them but they would have put much emphasis on Kampala because it is the biggest city but it is the poorest yet it is where they work from, where they do government work, but where they call their home areas, they work on them very much.
P4- you find them sweeping there so much
M: Do they even sweep?
All-yes
P7- but go here at Kampala road, and as you slope down, you find there pot holes, and if it rains , remember they build trenches but there is not even a hole which can take water from underground, it passes on the top.
 P5- On that same issue, there is an honourable’s child who died from Entebbe after taking a boda from home, they arrested boda bodas which shows that what concerns them is where they come out from but later they also left it. They come out after something has happened on the big man.
P7- I ask you to forgive me but let me bring it as an example about this woman who was killed called xxxx. They have come killing very many people but they merely speak about it and leave it, but when xxxx was killed, they came out with 100 million and poured it there. This was as if they were meaning that she is the first person who was killed yet they had killed more than 10 people but they come out and speak about it and leave it. But or xxx case, that’s when they discovered issues about phones, it is the other thing which you talked about.
M:  Okay I would like us to wind up on that issue but we are almost about to finish. You said that there is another one at Norvik, how did it come into existence?
P4- The one at Norvik was put there to help the children who cross while going and coming back from school.
P6- Mostly Buganda road was in that category because this one of Bat valley comes out and helps children to cross. So the strength of that zebra crossing relies on the school.
M: In fact even at Buganda road there is a hump was it already there or you think they put it there because of the children?
All- it was put there to help the school children. 
M: That is what we need, isn’t there anything else as we wind up on that issue which has been put in place to ensure that pedestrians are not affected?
P4- They have built pavements very well and they look good 
M: Where exactly?
P4- There is a pavement near the road going to kisekka, they have built pavements along Kampala road but there are many holes \and /the pedestrians come out and walk from the road itself.
M: The other issue which you talked about those pavements is supposed to have covers because they dig holes and leave them so someone pass there so he has to walk through the road.
P4- yes yet they have made them well
M; Now we would like you to tell us about the programs, some of them you hinted on them but as we wind up, we would like you to tell us about any programs or things concerning reducing on accidents for pedestrians on the road which you like to be put in place in your area?
P2- on Kampala road
All-not only on Kampala road but the whole of Kampala.
P4- Let them put on road signs and zebra crossings in Kampala, then let them put there speed limit for the people who are driving from Kampala. The third one is that they should put there fly overs to ensure that people who are crossing get somewhere to pass because as the city grows, some people come from the villages and they have never seen these vehicles.
M: You said they cry
P4- if you tell them to cross they will not, so there needs to be a fly over.
P5- Some of them just decide to run and cross at once, it’s up to you whether you have stopped or not. So, we need fly overs and road signs so that the roads can be well marked.
P3- In addition, you see these men who build, they normally fence the sites with iron sheets and they finish the whole space where people would have passed. Like there at Wilson they were demolishing a building and left it there, it fell of and killed a man and I was watching. There is a building which they are building as you go to Galilaaya, they demolished and left a certain part. So, a muzeeyi (old man) was shopping things from these Lugbara women who normally sell tomatoes and it fell on him and he died. So those builders consume a lot of space. I don’t know what they will do for that.
M; whereby a pedestrian is passing from the middle of the road and it also increases accidents;
P3-yes it increases on because the one who is passing is at the side, then someone driving may not see him or her because the understanding of people, they have many problems.
M; How about the rest, what would you like. Sometimes there are things which have been there but how better should they be improved? Because for the zebra crossings you said, let them put there a traffic officer, how about these ones which fade away?
P4- they should paint them as city council.
P5- because there are things I don’t know whether the materials which they use which are strong or long lasting, let them not put paint which can last for only 3 weeks. Let them do something whole heartedly as though they are working for their country.
P7- They can remain painting it because they know that that is the maintenance for the city, zebra crossing shouldn’t fade away. They have to remain painting it whether it is after a month or a week they have to continue painting it to ensure that it is there.
P8- Even for us drivers of vehicles and motorcycles, we should respect the zebra crossing, if we can reduce on the speed most especially if there is someone who is crossing.
P7- But if it is not there, there are some of us who drive anyhow.
M: How about you yourselves, as I have not seen you talking about yourselves, here is something which you talked about, 2 lanes, there is someone crossing, how about us as boda boda men?
P4- I talked about it and said that there are 2 lanes which they made for us the boda men there is nowhere they made for us, yet some time to come they want taxes out of us yet there is nothing which they have made for us. So, the 2 lanes are for the vehicles, we pass through them but after that they say that we squeeze ourselves yet we are also people who have to use the road, but they have not made any road for us but when you pass there where the vehicle has left a gap, they say you squeeze yourself, but if you find that the drivers of vehicles have created a third lane, then you have failed to get where to pass. That is where you find a boda man, passing on the pavement for the pedestrians.
M: So, you have left yourselves in a dilemma, fight on your behalf.
P2- Which means that I someone is on the road, he has to know that there are also boda bodas and as we are still riding boda bodas, you cannot tell me that I should be in the lane for vehicles because if you tell me so, because you will have chased my job off the road. That is what my colleague told you, someone comes driving his Benz and parks it and he jumps on a boda and tells me, take me so fast.
M: So what should we do?
P2- Whereby I have to squeeze myself through the vehicles to reach where he is going because he fails to pass there because he has failed to pass there because of the many vehicles and that’s where I have to pass. Which means if you are planning for the city but not planning where a boda boda passes, passing on pavements will not stop among the boda boda men, because someone cannot park his car and boards my boda and I also move behind vehicles, I have to look for where to pass to ensure that I keep my job because I also came to look for money and if I don’t do it I will not get it. So in order to get it, I have to devise means. Hence as they plan for the city, let them plan for where the motor cycles should pass because we are always in a hurry.
P1- Let me give you an example Wakiso road was well constructed, it is narrow but they left space for motorcyclists, people cross and move but for you, you take your line,
M: How about pedestrians?
P4- They made it this way, there is a pavement for the pedestrians, but this side of the pavement, they left there some space where the boda bodas can pass, it’s wide and then they put lines which separate vehicles on both sides.
P6- even on Jinja road that’s the way they had made it. They would be making them including a line for the boda bodas which they don’t make, they just squeeze us, and they have not taken a boda boda man as a human being.
P3-but there are some parts where it’s not possible, like on Kampala road, should they create a road for the boda bodas?
All- it is possible
But what am requesting only if they give us speed limit that it is 30 0r 20, we can all move by that.
P4- What am saying is possible on Kampala road, the upper one takes 2 lines and the lower one also takes 2 lines, but if they had made 2 lines, do you think a boda boda man will lack where to pass?
P2- no he will not lack where to pass 
P4- the road is or 2 lines they make 3 lines, where it is for one line they make 2 lines.
M: Okay is there anything else as we wind up concerning why there are many pedestrian accidents, how we can eradicate them, what has been there as we finish?
P3- I think we have hinted on everything
P4- what we think as we who are present or as I for one who has spoken on my behalf 
M: Thank you so much. Is there anything else?
P7- I think they are over, also we thank you for coming and thinking about us, I think do like that even another time.
M: Okay sir
                                          -END-

Date of interview		
Interviewer	xxxx	
Note taker	xxxx	
		
Category of interview	Private drivers	
Duration of interview	57 minutes	
Transcribed by	xxxxx	
M: Mod: thank you so much for agreeing to participate in our study, like we said we have invited you so that we discuss about interventions that promote and enhance pedestrian road safety. These interventions might be aimed directly at pedestrians, for example increased visibility through wearing brightly colored clothes or reflectors, or providing safe places to walk, such as zebra crossings. They might also protect pedestrians as part of general road user safety, e.g. speed limits. We shall therefore begin by exploring road safety more generally, and then discuss pedestrian safety specifically.
M. In this community, what road safety concerns do you have? OR
 Is in this area you live in or work from do you have any concerns connected to road accidents on your roads?
P1: To me there is only one thing I would like them to do for me. I need them to close that thing up the other small thing at Havana there have you understood it (what kind of thing is it) the other junction that comes from is it mukwano mall? so we can remain as Nabugabo you just move out and cross to old Kampala but not coming from old Kampala and then enter here (hmmm) do you understand it.
M: Now what really do you want them to do like you have said they should do it what do you mean when you say they should do it?
P1:They should connect it(they should close it)they should connect it so they don’t turn with the others when Bodabodas slope they should turn back so that when you come from down you just come and slope and get the alternative and you go back where you would like to go to, you get to Nabugabo you get to William you get to Havana do you get me. Another thing is those pedestrians that slope down there if they can at least put there a fly over(because the park that is at Namayiba since it is close to the new park) so people come from the new park when they are going to Namayiba(now there is nothing like Zebra crossing there is nothing at all there is nothing that someone can stand on   when someone is from these ends they just go into  the road when he is even crossing the Bodabodas are many the cars are also so many and they are many  people crossing from  new park to Namayiba  so if possible they should at least put for them a flyover so they don’t pass down  where  the cars are.
M: Now these are the concerns that you’ve got around this area others what kind of concerns do you have those connected to road accidents in your area?
P2: senstisation of people who walk on foot to make them understand since they don’t even know what a Zebra crossing is. do you get me? someone can stop a car and he says for him he has crossed   which is Not bad because that’s what he thinks is  right but ,  let them inform people that on the roads there are zebra crossing like there when you put there Zebra crossing or traffic lights it helps you to stop so that people get to know that they cross from Fido dido. Do you understand me? cars come from the other side because someone will have left the other side you can’t fail to put there a Zebra crossing.
P3:And another thing is a place where people walk from on the road or main road it has got to have a side should I call it a pavement where people should walk from those with bicycles and motorcycles [and those on foot] should get their own side like one with the motorcycle would be riding  from his side together with that one riding a bicycle because that one with the motorcycle and the one with the bicycle when he comes to the side  he passes anywhere he likes because he fits there and he ends up not realizing the speed at which the car moves yet the car might be moving on speed but for him he sees it like it isn’t speedy at all then he ends up causing an accident and it crushes him because even the person he is carrying crushes with him that also becomes an accident, isn’t it? And when it turns out to be an accident the owner of the car may also get a problem and so does the motorcyclist and his customer as well.
P4: Another thing is the government should make people’s standard of living, people are very badly off and they move saying what are we going to eat today? You find them saying today they will only eat porridge so you find that in such a terrible situation he just crosses the road and they end up crushing him, others things like alcohol mess up people’s lives you find people taking sachet alcoholic drinks when going home. A motorcyclist holding a sachet while riding so that also brings problems in accidents because of alcohol.
I: Hmmm others what kind of concerns do you have about?
P3: The bicycle riders are not worth driving from Kampala road even constructing for us like up there the road is rugged the car will come struggling to look for the smooth side even the motorcycle and you find people have nowhere to walk from even the pedestrian. The road got spoiled long time ago and there is no one concerned. The main one on Kampala road what I see now is because people who come from the other side come at a high speed there is nothing like humps or anything they join around there. Even this morning there was a taxi that couldn’t break and it ended up crushing the motorcyclist so they should put there something down to the man hole that hinders it from sloping down and crushing the people coming.
P4: The main challenge that is key first around Kampala here is the roads are narrow compared to the situation we live in or the situation. The roads we are living with were constructed at standard of people of long time ago because they were few but now the most important thing is the cars are many, people are many and the roads are narrow, don’t you see? The problem there is too huge  exposing people to accidents we tell people to squeeze themselves  the one on foot  wants to go and so does the one with the car don’t you see how hard it is.
P6: Another thing is when we have heavy rains and yet there are a lot of pot holes in the roads now someone comes on speed and just gets scared of the pot hole he wants to dodge it at the same time when he turns to dodge he finds there someone and crushes him in a blink of an eye that could be a problem too. KCCA has to make sure that when it rains it should help on the pot holes. These potholes are the bigger problem.
P5: KCCA has something like an announcement on the radio of late where they tell people to be careful when crossing the road. The new traffic lights have a button you press something like that like its rare in the people that move on foot it’s  like people have a right to move but they should not cross from any point , like when you are walking on Kampala as you have just left city square already and you get to know that here is where this building  ends from you will cross from  Fido dido or where the Zebra crossing is or in the middle do you understand me people of long ago used that’s how they  used to  walk let’s say when I walk this mile I will reach at Fidodido then cross the other side do you understand me or after I walk to city square where the Zebra crossing is just like that but not all people have such or don’t  know such have you got me.
P4: Another thing is the way police works or authority the way it does its operations sometimes there is a way they carry out their enforcement and people reach a point where people drive their cars when they see the police he wants to turn  there and then without  planning so in the due course of avoiding the police they run away so in the way of turning with a lot of fear because he was already panicking he is already confused in his minds  he ends up causing  an accident that may involve the pedestrian.
P2:These accidents when one comes from home without knowing how to drive a car as in when he is not set himself well and he is worried about not having the spanner or maybe the tires are not good so he says like but those vehicles you invested in money those of “Nalufeenya” do you get me that affects someone in that an individual fails to do what he is supposed to do  and he ends up doing what he is not supposed to do, do you get me the policeman those of traffic when they get someone without the documents or the permit  for us we grew up knowing that when a police officer finds you without documents/ permit  talking about you he questions you and takes your details  and know that such and such a person is called so like how one gets to know your name if the same case happens for maybe two or three  you are the same person  getting involved  with such a case so there and then they take you to the court and judge you because they warned you at the first time and then they warned you for the second time and for the third time, but this business of  just apprehending  you even maybe the situation we are in here in Uganda that alone won’t stop accidents. that’s why even on the issue of highway I disagree with it so much instead of telling people to drive cars well, but they institute fika- Salama and all that they go on putting in black spots those they talk about makes no sense.
P5: Another thing is what I think they are people who got right of way and yet they don’t have those right of way so when someone finds out that he is not supposed to get a right of way he will keep in the road but because he got a police light he also wants to save his time and he is trying to maneuver around in the sidewalks.  So, someone will be hesitant to clear the way just because this one wants to take your time he also wants to turn around and take the wrong way at the end of the day he causes Jam or an accident, so they must sensitize us so that we can know who has the right of way the Ambulance and who else.
P3:All of us in Uganda (but we get to find out that everyone has a right of way now  yeah and where did this come from) we should be sensitized that such and such  a vehicle has right of way .
P4: Another thing is about Arua park you find wheelbarrows, buses you find the tables for booking the buses that are put in the way and someone with a car wants to pass and so does the one on foot why don’t they get a park for vehicles like buses and wait for people even those who put blockers they also bring a lot of Jam the road starts to, (the way where the vehicles pass is where the people pass (he is just like intruding)
P8: And another thing is those taxi drivers, a taxi driver parks anywhere he finds he parks where he finds sometimes you come with your car and you end up just parking in front of you then he starts arguing in the end you knock him then you are into arguments of who caused the accident for them where one asks to get out that’s where they park, they do not park in the allowed parking points. 
P3: We have got to have laws put in place where they will mark lanes , that this person on this lane is moving out in that line and they should not cross to some ones lane . You see we are all moving in the same direction but because they are a head of you then he crosses and comes to my line for convenience purposes and because he has not seen any car then when he comes to my side I find him therein cannot break at once because that means that whoever is behind me will end up ramming into me that means they have to sensitize people that where they are the lanes that were marked that once there you don’t have to go to another one as we see on high ways they tell you that this is climbing lane once you leave this lane you have to go to the other [ the speed you are supposed to drive at] even in Kampala that is how it is supposed to be.  
P1: There those such sign posts here on the road they are not there (am requesting that you talk one by one because the thing will not record well.)
P2:Let me go first, like  down there at this time the hawker is exactly on the road he even moves from the pavement and goes back to the road and even the pedestrian walking sees that the pavement is too small he stays on the road and then we all end up knocking each other, another thing is I request all schools that are near Kampala they should at least encourage people to use school bus you find that from 3:30pm to 5:00 o’clock you find that a school child is moving in the middle of the cars he doesn’t look there, the Bodas are moving at a high speed now the Buganda road and those of Nakasero primary school they crush them too much because there many of them that walk by foot and go to the park am encouraging them to get school bus that might help.
P4: Madam let me give you another example do you see Bwaise we had some problems at Bwaise but now the problem is not like the way it was like the Jam is no longer constant because the thing they enlarged it took like two by two each side do you get me that is what is needed here if they could at least enlarge this Kampala bombo road.
P6: That thing here this road is the same as the one of Bwaise but then these parking the truth is that we also sometimes park there as we need to save time as well but the problem is the parking location multiplex gains from the parking but we don’t see what we benefit from it but we don’t see its value that parking on the road side.
P5:But after doing all these we have all discussed but then we have to first ask ourselves what duty does the government play on helping us because multiplex was given a tender it collects money from us every time we give them money and they keep increasing the money for parking but what do they benefit because at least things like sign posts that shows you area entering the city when you enter the city there a lot of people you have to decrease on the speed you’re driving at because the people are so many another thing is demarcating the road  because I know the contract they signed has have rights demarcate  where the parking should be but even if you have a look at it there is nothing that shows that the parking stops here or there  I should stop here or there, they only did that  when they had just got a contract but                                  When it was washed away they never put again.
P3:They are not the ones who put them there they have the rights they just get the tender there is something called tender agreements its where you sign they just hand them the contract at the end of the day they just eat from it, now where is  there importance , secondly we have a lot of people that are given tender now like how we have Nabugabo got no special place like this is where we should collect the rubbish from so it puts wherever it finds to put its metal whether it has put there rubbish or made Jam it doesn’t want to know okay like people who are given tender from KCC what is their importance in the country other than  from eating our money so we got to look unto the contracts and revise them again before we people get into them.
P4: Another thing in most cases here or like here in  the middle of the city or there should have been away of educating  of the drivers so that everyone gets to know that when from here like right of way when you reach the junction for example from kyagwe road  and that up in Nakasero someone from up there from Nakasero and sloping down to Buganda road and someone going back to pine and someone going up who has the right of way who has to stop when the other crush each other to pass there has to be someone stopping that thing must be taught or sensitize people about it .
P1: Critical where all these problems come from I told you that madam where we studied or trained from they taught us all those things that’s what the man said that we should go back to and get educated on road safety, Let me tell you this whenever you are on the hill the one crossing the road has to wait for the one  at the hill sloping  the one down is the one who is supposed to first pass then cross have you got me right but not you coming form up and just cross do you get me to avoid the problem of the vehicle off balancing and turning around because you at the line and at a flat road you can’t go back when you stop the car stays there at the hill of course he has to go through the problems but there is no sign that shows that they removed all the junctions everyone has its own.
P6:There some meters madam the ones they measure that if the road is like this you have to be able to help these people crossing here you give them time to cross more especially at the roundabout they have some few meters where the car stops from so that the pedestrian can pass there(the one on foot)the one on foot do you get me (hmmm)when the one with the car drives he doesn’t find his fellow to cause confusion this one doesn’t know where he is going and so is the other one such risky things(do you realize that that thing also disturbs the traffic officers, because you see there is a Mulago hill I don’t know how they call that thing as you go and reach the hospital as you cross from the Nsooba as you cross to join under mawanda road it seems like the cars are from down before it cross the hill without being disturbed by these coming from up it seems like the car has to even stop from the down so the traffic officer just calls drivers  because that hill people come in Jam and it goes up to the upper side so when they come up that is where the traffic officer stops them , so those cars up they are many accidents that take place on that spot at least in a week they are not less than two  , a week the accidents there are not below two the cars that get damaged there are not less than two but just increasing up to ten a week because it’s the road I use the cars fail to pass that thing there, the does not need to be on or for a certain period where the car doesn’t need the engine to be on the slope down that means those sign posts there is limitation. Yeah there is when it gets limited. [But now that place needs traffic lights]
M: Hmmm now thank you, so about all that you have talked about like how that man said that we like to blame it to people who walk by feet like whatever we talk about lets first look at these people who walk by foot what causes them to get accidents this man said that when we are at the roundabout there is space we have to leave for pedestrians that when you don’t leave it for a pedestrian that can cause an  accident  now what other things do you think cause the pedestrians apart from you had talked about how people behave but I haven’t heard that very well the pedestrians?
P4:The most important thing(you talk one by one)that comes first the person who drives a car is here and the pedestrian is here the person who is driving is the one to reason for a pedestrian pretend that you are stupid and he is wise you do what you are supposed to do if it is stopping you stop because I walk on foot and I drive a car so you should know and  say like this has done wrong I had to wait for him to cross and he decide where he is going so you leave him to decide where he is going not to think where he is going to cross and go there you just drive while following him with your eyes so you know where he is going because there no sign posts  everywhere but even if there are sign posts it’s not that they will put them everywhere but you just think for him like okay this one is going to cross this one walks like this just understand him and drive your way yeah so there you will have reduced the accidents.
M: you had something to add on.
P2:About the same issue the pedestrians sometimes they are to blame and sometimes you pity them sometimes the drivers like the car drivers motorcyclists and bicycles don’t give respect to pedestrians where the right place is for pedestrians to cross from for example there are some places which are not  Zebra crossings but it is a crossing point   some places they are well indicated  very well when you  are driving a car you can see  the  sign post even before you reach there but the drivers most times they don’t want to observe and give respect at those points apart from when the pedestrians crossing come in a group and many there he can say let me stop and they cross but when they are one or two the drivers don’t want all they want is to pass and the pedestrian finds his way out or he first waits in the middle and let the driver pass so he can cross too so there is a problem that the drivers should get a way to respect in places that are directed to be like a pedestrian is supposed to cross from there.
P2: Another thing I think it’s about us the people I think that if the government comes out and puts up a law that helps people for example sometimes we talk on phones while walking now when you are taking on a phone while walking sometimes it could destruct you or annoy you when you are in the middle of the road and in a blink of an eye when you are gaining sense again you are in front of the car or motorcycle you understand which isn’t good so they should tell us where we should talk on our phones from because these phones are not from here they just in came and that can also help on reducing on the accidents because of the communication.
P5: Now adding on that what’s app and Facebook have brought women problems the most women I’ve crushed have been on WhatsApp while sending like a voice SMS yeah while on Facebook in a blink of and you see her just crossing the road and she begins shouting what! What! What! So they should teach them WhatsApp whether it’s a home one or an office one otherwise that’s it.
ALL:  Phones, phones!!!!
P1:Even the poor should get away from   Uganda the way everyone has an authority we are here as you can see us here but there are people who don’t want to know these things do you get me but for us  where we trained  from long time ago we used to know a pedestrian do you get me (hmmm)we have meters they had told us that the person who is in front of you do you get me (hmmm)and the one behind you consider them as people who don’t know do you understand me that’s what they do now if your eyes show you pedestrians they don’t allow to hoot for the person crossing the road in our regime and where we started from they used not to allow someone to make a siren for someone crossing the road they did not allow it at all perhaps if he just gets scared. do you understand me ,according to me I think our government should come up and sensitize the people most especially the drivers about  who are in this situation sometimes now even now you can hear them( refers to hooting that is over heard out) they turned them into business do we agree (hmmm)yet there is a place whereby the person making siren should have a reason as to why he makes it  for but the person is hooting unnecessarily that is to say in most cases a pedestrian walking they tell us when driving the car he is not set well he is sometimes with office thoughts, he is with the home thoughts, he always has someone he is demanding so by the time he drives on the way he finds himself in the middle of it they don’t allow you this in the driving that cane first, another thing unless I’ve seen him losing control then that’s when I hoot,
P6:Another thing is the way car driving schools is teaching people to drive , very many people have taught people to drive cars the way they are not or where they are not supposed to learn driving them and another thing we have the youths when  they get money they buy cars that run at a high speed so he wants to test it on Kampala roads so he can hear how it makes sound he increases the speed and he ends up failing to control it or stop it and at the end of the day he ends up causing  an accident so traffic should help us on one thing it has to help us on people who want to show off those who want to learn driving from Kampala they should find somewhere to learn from but not in Kampala and those who would like to race let them race from other places not here.
P7: Another thing DMC the old cars they usually crush the pedestrians it’s not the pedestrian problem but the old cars that are around the city cannot stop/break when he is passing the car produces a smoke and it’s hard to see him yes madam.
P8: Another thing about the old cars it has indeed increased on the accidents around Kampala those taxes got no breaks they got nothing they have no indicator it has nothing showing yet it’s around Kampala and sometimes you might find that it belongs to a policeman or some other “big” person and so they shouldn’t apprehend them .like they shouldn’t do anything about them those are the cars that make accidents mostly.
M: Now as we put that issue aside which people do you know among the pedestrians that are at risk mostly?
P7:School children the elderly, the lame, the pregnant women (and even drunkards)I won’t talk a lot about them because for them [ another thing you women  do you get me (hmmm)tell your fellows women as you interact with them  that when they are crossing the road they should be responsible  as I had told you already let her cross but not showing off with her butt because they are women those who are beautiful ,she walks slugging, when you enter the road it’s not about joking there people who are waiting and they are targeting to pass and go do you get their businesses done (hmmm)for her she comes in the road modelling slowly (just because she is at Zebra).
All: all laugh.
P5: The nuns that cover themselves don’t even see the Somalis that cover their faces they don’t see the vehicle at all.
P4: Another thing that brings that are the traffic officer there is a way they operate  like in the junction where they put the traffic lights the traffic lights show  something different  and they also call up on drivers differently  another thing the light may be working for something like the biggest is like 5minutes or 3minutes but they can stop the cars let’s say you are coming  from Nsambya they can stop the cars for something like two hours you park then it creates jam  starting from there (now how can that cause a pedestrian to get  an accident)when they are set off , someone sets off with  anger because you’ve held them  me for two hours they just make us stupid  so he sets off with anger without stopping and also the pedestrian is crossing  they knock them so much at the lights but let the traffic lights do its job the traffic  officer should also do the observation [people are tired of traffic officers]
P4:but you see if those lights were right or they are functioning well  and they also return the sign posts on the road like how they are supposed to be[ that’s the important thing] and giving someone a permit actually he has to go to school not like these things of ours and that’s a very important issue to give someone a permit he has to go to school so he gets to know that how is the pedestrian treated or how do I drive we be there imagining but among us all who has ever gone to driving school [what would he be looking for from there] ,these ones here are not driving school (learning center)actually they teach them to correct it they teach them how to put the car on the road but not to drive a car  (you hear the youths saying that there laws in schools for me where I was trained they were laws )where is that driving school that teaches people now (they are there)they just teach you to put the car on the road they don’t teach you  the road signs like in practical (you give him what you have given him)yeah and he goes its done.
P3: They should take us back to training driving a manual car lets go back to the driving school let the government fund it let it borrow money and sensitize people they announce through radios city council started it I’ve heard of it on the radio.  
P5: And also people should take care of themselves even crossing they should not cross like it’s because I have the figure this one is like am talk, am short they even have a slung they always tell us sir or “muzeyi” “when you knock me you’ll pay me for you have made enough money” now you’re talking about me knocking you what really would I need from you.
M: You talked about how school children are at risk what puts them at risk?
P4: They don’t know because they are school children the schools we used to go to from had laws are there those schools to which you take your children are there traffic laws.
P6: Children are young and even the elder one let’s say like they are from the same family now when the mum puts them at park tells them to go to school the elder one pulls the young one and the young one gets afraid of the car they are in the middle of the road the cyclist is coming the house girl brought them when they were three when she took two and the other in a blink of an eye you realize that this moves to the other side as the other also moves to this side like [even the children there children you find alone they are alone for example like the Buganda road children you always see how they cross the road yeah those at Buganda road they come like five of them and cross at once and enter into  the road they just move that means there is no one that told them that this is what you are supposed to do while crossing the road  like  in our schools we used to study them we used to study them the traffic look left look right cross.
P3:Maybe the schools have no problem they still teach about them the problem is in the behaviors of the drivers all schools that teach children tell them one thing when you are going to cross the road look for  the Zebra crossing is, apart from that of look left look right ,in Kampala here it’s very hard to look left right or right when there is no cars coming so you can pass the vehicle because the vehicles are so many but the problems is the drivers who drive these vehicles got no behavior when they reach the crossing those points another thing they are also not put well or no longer exist, some were there but they are no longer there and even the sign posts that show that there children crossing ahead they there no longer there but the children have been knocked so much at city square there the Zebra is at the main post office that zebra crossing is main   everyone knows it but still there are a lot of crushes even at Kitante even if there is a crossing point but still some drivers come and just by pass and then he knocks the two or one until they found out that there should be someone an adult to help them cross so these crossing points should be shown again and also the drivers should be held responsible if they knock someone a pedestrian at those points they are supposed to cross from, that should be considered as high profile crime because of knocking someone at the zebra crossing.
P6: Me I think In the past they were cows everywhere in the city but right now they stopped them, when you look at some schools in Kampala by the time you decide to take a child to school in a city u would be affording which wasn’t the same as long time ago now so the schools which educate children in the city this city isn’t a training area it is business area like for business men all the people in it are traders people doing their things so they don’t enjoy seeing children around those schools that are let’s say the owners of the schools in the city so they should create an environment  whereby these children are controlled like the schools in the city must have buses another thing the schools in the city must have their own way of teaching and they should take care of the children the child has been picked from school he should be picked by the right person it’s not that everyone is going to pick your child or you just take your child home sometimes it’s not all about accidents alone but the children leave the city and go to bars children leave the city and they get corned but in that process the parent has no slightest clue when you reach home you hear narrations that your child has been knocked you get surprised what he could have been doing all those ends where he or she was because he schools from the city so what I know is the city the schools that teach the children form the city they have to educate these children that they should wait for their parents or they should go back to their real them not just leaving them to keep wondering because the city I might also come across the girl the child will leave school knowing am her boyfriend and she changes her clothes like the children here how do they call it  xxx SS there that is around here(hmmm)he comes and find s out that you are beautiful she has to go to her boyfriend she has to change clothes her parents have no idea she came to visit me but in that process of visiting me because she is on a hurry her boyfriend has called her and she needs to see me so all minds is messed up and they may end up knocking her in that process and I end up getting problems as a youth who was in love with her so in that process they have to sensitize their children.
P2: And also tell our government you people who can take our voices let It teach people to drive cars again they should put there specific places where there those laws how one has to drive by the time he holds a steering when he knows how to drive very well that he knows how to drive the car very well and has learnt all that is necessary. 
P5:The government should control some things like driving schools the government should handle that like on its  own they should not privatize  it [the government should give the private schools a syllabus.  So that an individual that has gone to the driving  school they have to sit for the examinations like there is an intake of so and so they go and mark them and  he or she  if you haven’t passed you have  failed  [ and if  one has passed you go ahead]but it’s not like whoever has money has to get a permit  I have now heard xxxx son he is eight years I don’t know him but he is a young child and driving a car on the road he has someone he is driving  someone where could he have learnt driving a car from is it the father who taught him is it really the father who taught him [ he just see the father driving and he also tries to drive]
M: Now in this area are there any plans or programs that have been put in place to reduce accidents connected to pedestrians on roads?
P2:  I have never heard of them, they had never told us about those programs  (because there is no one don’t you see us here now I think that would  be the way to go they should have put their mobile public address system (maybe KCCA has started to put it on TV ) and on the radios or newspapers  don’t know anything about that most of the people in Kampala we don’t listen to the radio (we read news)we don’t watch TV we don’t have time to watch TV if we are to watch TV we watch football but we read normally read newspapers so much now for the newspapers  let it be there for a month .
M: You talked about KCCA putting adverts what are these adverts about do you see these adverts put to help a pedestrian what did they talk about I would like to know the program they have put?
P5: Its about knowing about the Zebra crossing, to know about the traffic lights when to cross the road then the road user when he drives he is already aware that when he is driving he is not using the road alone how does a cyclist turn you get it they have done it very well and it has no problem, we are grateful.
M: So that is the only program you’ve heard about isn’t there any other program you’ve heard about?
P4: Just media because the media here in Kampala is connected to the news, we read the newspapers.
M: Do you think this program they have put is there any way it has helped people or it hasn’t?
P4:For it  has helped because when I look at Bwaise they listen to the radio so much you see  when they had just put the traffic lights the traffic safety was bad than now because before one crosses they have to first observe if the traffic light is allowing them to cross before he does anything and they also observe that the cars are not moving ,the accidents have reduced because people have realized the usefulness of traffic lights , I have also seen boda boda riders also stopping and observing traffic lights they are not like of those days where they would just come and cross but they also  stop and they are patient so it has helped .  
P5: Another thing about the KCCA please where people have finished to  work let’s say like Bwaise let’s say like Kalerwe, they worked on  Kalerwe very well and we thought they had widen the road but someone brings a box of tomatoes and puts them on pavement where the pedestrian passes (that’s true)just go to Bwaise at this time there is one with passion fruits, one with tomatoes, one with eggplants and the pedestrian is comes to main  the road since they have nowhere to pass so someone with the car comes from the other side while there is nowhere to pass the pedestrian has nowhere to pass from that is to say when those people KCCA should take the responsibility of  sending these people from the pavements.
P5:The places we walk in you find people like where someone is supposed to pass they are selling their good from there, like clock tower you find boxes of  tomatoes are fully  there yet the pedestrians used to pass there going to Usafi but I heard that KCCA collects  money from them so they can’t just move someone who they collect money from and even those who collects are not known so KCCA has to revise its staff to see that such things end to see that people are removed from there so that we get walk ways  such people should go to their markets.
I: Have you heard about safe way riders for those who ride motorcycles safe what do they call them safe what (safe riders) (safe boda) have you heard about them do you think they have done something about reducing on the accidents of the pedestrians?
P4:I think it’s just a name because today they might do it to make you happy and when it reaches some time he removes them and he rides like any other usual  Boda Boda rider in his way so that is aimed at making money .
P8: Some of the safe Bodas yeah you can see him stopping at traffic lights because he would be having a yellow helmet I did not have good education (it is orange) if he is having a customer he respects the traffic lights and at times he respects sometimes the Zebra but when he is alone you just see him just passing by (so do you think those program or plan has reduced accidents or a way it has put discipline towards the motor cyclists?
P8: Safe way has done something because he only drives one person and the Boda and usually when a boda boda is having one passenger it can easily stop and it cannot fail to balance, secondly they respect the traffic lights and zebra crossing at times whenever he finds it, and safe boda isn’t bad.
M: Now all these you talked about you had talked about KCCA had they ever come here like how I’ve come here and said we have got to introduce this program give us some ideas?
P5:We have never seen them [ but madam does that procedure work here in Uganda] they just do their work  KCCA has  its  laws, they have the authority do you know what they call authority they make their own laws then they implement [ they do not consult the public] In Uganda here they don’t consult they just make their laws [ the other one is an authority] I even asked you madam what would lead to a driver be apprehended and you put him in “nalufenya” ( nalufenya is a traffic mobile pick up that is used by police to transport drivers to CPS those that committed traffic offences around Kampala)  me I have drove cars for twenty five years for a traffic officer to stop you he just directs you to CPS they give you some days so long as he gets your documents  that talk about you, you they give you three days and you report yourself to the police for that offence  when they take you to the police either you get it done at the police they will take you to court or take you to one of the high rank officer but now days you find them on the road  he stops the car in the middle of the road forgetting that  any he doesn’t forget  because he will have seen the cars coming from behind but  he stops him in the middle of the road  after doing  what he wants to do to him he gives him the paper and checks his permit in the middle of the road just because he is prominent to make him stop.
P3: Do you remember that accident of the bus that occurred there some time back they said the driver came making a siren when the bus had lost control failed the traffic policeman did not allow the bus to move they use their positions but when he saw it coming he jumped away and then it crushed people and yet he had to make way for the other man to try and maneuver with the bus so that he could pass but he failed.
P6: when You are a traffic officer and you see the vehicle has lost control it’s your responsibility to help pedestrians not to be crushed by creating away so that that vehicle can gain control  all vehicles are not the same , when you see a car over loaded give it time and space for it to pass  .
M: Now we are about to finish do you think you said KCCA has programs it has introduced but do you have any plans or anything that had happened now like let’s give an example of a woman that when she died the stopped issuing of sim cards was now let’s look at the accidents that have been on road do you think there was anything that happened like a prominent person perhaps him getting an accident or maybe he got a problem and you like (let’s do this and this)
P4: That’s out I haven’t seen that I had never seen that (you die alone).
P6: What I have seen in spots where an important person has had an accident that is where they put humps or add them   when we look at for example at the Kitula road I don’t know who was killed there or the accident that took place  if there is any accident they almost fill all the road with humps all over even where it is not necessary even in the corner and everywhere they put there humps but they have to control those humps it’s not that  everywhere you have to put humps everywhere you reach a heavy hill your over loaded now like some of us load firewood that is where you find a hump  its annoying so they should also control those humps please it’s not everywhere that they should put humps.
P1: Madam can I give you another example they put sign posts on this road that slopes down to kyagwe road  where they indicated that buses are not allowed to use that  road , Right now they located the bus park to namayiba  but do you know how many accidents that have taken place due to losing control like “xxxx” buses  even the lorries their problems they lose control but for them they had stopped using that road and the accidents had reduced they no longer slope there even those which over load things and all that you have to turn to Wandegeya are you getting me but now they brought it back.
P3: Even the bus which killed the girl it was sloping down it failed to stop (they had to put a sign post showing that Lorries are not supposed to use that road  but right now all the big people businesses are in Namayiba so what is right.
I: Now there people I talked to let me add on this and see if it can come out clearly there is a hump they told me around Entebbe road they were just from putting it there like a few days it hit   a prominent person and they removed it the following day is there any other thing that you know of was put in place …
P4:That is the exact thing I had wanted to talk about the fly over  is no longer functional but KCCA just looks at it people now pass down instead of passing over the flyover and go to Katwe but the number of people that get accidents over there a day are unknown that’s why they put humps because the flyover is not functional  and people no longer use it they were passing there now when this prominent person saw that they put a hump and it hit  him he removed it but even they have not bothered to repair the flyover so that people can use it. It is also like that Drainage Bridge that is at the Usafi market after losing a bank lady she was at Barclays it been a long time then that’s when they put that wall because they came and drowned there with a boda boda rider.
P3:Why do you like making changes after  problem has come instead of prevention and it’s really hard that the problem comes directly to the prominent person or a child to the prominent person he first gets the problem and then it’s thought about let him look at that of Entebbe road the hump was put because the flyover was not functional  and it was removed because it was removed by the leader(and yet he is too old)yes it hit the leader (and yet he is old)(all  laugh) that is not the only accident that has happened there  they were two I don’t know if they have removed all them because people die from there.
P2: And another thing is they put the hump today you pass there during a few days they are no longer there when it’s not there the cement they put as if it made of clay it I don’t understand it
P4: But me I think according to me I think if there is a northern bypass the accidents are there but not many because first of all we know we have to drive but there is no hump, the humps don’t save the person but you put sign posts that has reflector so that even at night I can see it, so the person comes from the other side and sees it (we are almost finishing).
M: As we come to an end now are there organizations that have come up to help in road safety?
P3: Like NGOs like Red Cross (yes what have they done?)
P3: Red cross has been there before there is no organization that has come out Red cross paints zebra crossing, the banks come and paint zebra crossings that have been washed way/ faded even the rotary clubs and scouts they come and paint zebra crossings that have faded away but in most cases…. (which of those have been painted) they started with makerere college post office.
P2 : But Do you  know that these organizations in most cases they do this in order to advertise their organizations or companies, like when they celebrating their days but they should paint them from time to time ([ they paint when they are celebrating anniversaries  we don’t blame these organizations for them  the only person who comes to help you when you are in a problem it’s not their a mandate that  he has to do that because that is just helping City council and the department of traffic they are the ones responsible for that so the organizations just come to give a hand  let people be wise they know where zebra crossing are  they are not responsible about the roads they are just helping us the city council and the traffic even those who take up the are the ones who are concerned about the city okay for they just come to give a hand.
P4:That is  the sensitization I told u about that people should be “awake” so that they know  Zebra crossing but the  government steps of advising people that when you are driving a vehicle due you see the meters that cover that parking out there ( he points out side where the parking is ) they tell us that when you are driving from that side by the time you reach here you should have changed the speed meter like when it is around 20 or 30 but you just see someone coming from that side when his speed is at 60 [at times they are even above 60] but all this rotates around KCCA the time they are repairing/or carrying out road maintenance they don’t have a given set of time any time they fill like working on the pot holes that is when they do it , And  when  working on pot holes they just cover them with soil yet  initially it was tarmac and at times they clear the pot hole and leave it there without doing anything  thus causing accidents. They open up that pot hole and they just leave open,
P4: let me also talk about the pothole where I reside  do you see that pothole at  Lusazi you see that pothole as you come from down they are waiting for  an accident to take place there that is when they will work on it , there is a petro station it started developing slowly now it has gone up to the drainage so when vehicles meet there they don’t want to give way they all want to keep on one direction but that pothole KCCA sees it instead they arresting those who are trading from the road side but the pothole is there  I know once that pothole causes an  a problem that is when they will work on it .  
M: Now the NGOs you have talked about do they reach out to you and tell you that we are please going to do something about this?
ALL: No not at all. 
P4: That is what I told you about t those people show up because they want to advertise to show up how they are around today they will come, and paint one or two zebra crossings and they don’t come back, then the journalists will come and take coverage and then they cover up for their budgets [they just come to pass time].
M: Now as we finish up this is our last question what would you like to see being done on the roads to see that we decrease on these accidents?
P 3: They are many but those exactly we talked about all that we talked about need to be thought about the government should come out (those that are connected to the pedestrians) those that we talked about all of them.
M: I request you to point out a few as we finish.
P6: The busy places there should always be a traffic officer helping people to cross, busy places should be put flyovers they should stop people from drinking alcohol during the day or night okay like when they are moving they should tell the beautiful women to cross the road very well (all laugh) what’s app and face book should be done when she is at the verandah or in the office yeah they are so many.  
P5: For example when you are going to the Arua park there is no sign post for example like when they indicate that they are cows crossing so they tell us that they are many people doing their own things because you won’t tell a wheel barrow pusher that someone at Arua park with a wheel barrow that don’t work he will not accept but you put there assign post so that if someone is driving around there he should drive at a low speed because he knows it’s a busy area.
P1:  Madam even kyagwe road that you are talking about for me I have told you that thing down there do you get me it should be blocked (which thing are you talking about) madam do you see Mukwano mall as you go up in the corner there Bodabodas riders (that with a triangle) exactly there that way that heads to a new park at Havana someone with the car has again to go back there.
 P4: They come from old Kampala then they come at Mukwano mall they go to the parking from Havana to the parking so I don’t know why they can’t come from up there then they come back here at equatorial no like we can come up to Equatorial   like how they blocked this one at Kikubo and then they opened it there after just because of their “oluyaye” they should build like a berlin wall from the equatorial up to down there.
P4: They should put flyovers for pedestrians (and those pedestrians are many those who go to Kiseka in the evening and morning all the xxxxx cross from there. When you find a xxxx crossing the bum is there and there (all laugh)
M: You had something to say these that we have talked about what do you want to add [ they will not listen to you] they will listen I can’t sit here for all this long without them listening to me.
P3: Tell them those problems sensitization is still lacking I have told you the years I have been driving a car, on them let me tell you for all years that I have been driving am not allowed to knock someone am not allowed to crush someone’s car but for them they knock cars and you ask why they knocked you.
 P4: The government should take over driving schools without leaving them to the private owners (actually abroad they don’t allow that)
M: Is there anything we’ve left there that you feel like this woman hasn’t talked about it and yet it’s about roads accidents involving pedestrians?
P1: Tell those above to help us and let the law work the poor are many, even the traffic officers are many   on road they stress people (by the way the traffic officers are too many by the way even those who don’t have jobs) even when it’s not a crime they make it a crime and KCC want to work too much than the traffic.[ you find around three in  a junction.]
P5: Please tell them to at least decrease the traffic officers 
M: And what challenges have these traffic officers caused in regards to pedestrians?
P4:No there those they grab when the motorcycle is moving, in most cases when someone has not committed a crime in most cases he wants to run away because of the reason being that the traffic officer will grab him yet he has not committed any crime 
P1: From bat valley up to KPC there are3 always traffic officers up to city square so by the time you reach there you are worried, you see that traffic officer even when you are innocent you still want to run away from him so that he doesn’t arrest you (even if he arrests you when you are innocent he will still implicate you) now you run so you can drive away and then you end up causing an accident.
P3: The taxi drivers they return back to where they are not supposed to go and then he ends up going where he is not supposed to go.
M: Now thank you very much.
P3: We have met but let’s see whether our things will be worked upon.
M: Thanks for your time.